Spartans In 'halo: Reach'

[Isaac 039]

Sithslayer,

You say only half of the 150 spartan II mark I's made it.

Thats why a lot of people are suspecting they are Spartan II Mark II's.

 

[Isaac 039]

Hey look what just came up.

"The Unidentified Lieutenant is a SPARTAN-II Commando of the UNSC Naval Special Warfare Command [1]. He served with Noble Team during the Battle of Reach in 2552."

http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Unidentified_Lieutenant_(Noble_Team)

Voila

 

[mattmann1]

But that ( ^ ) is also most probably speculation just like this considering that all of its info is from the trailer also.

 

[Cadet]

And although bungie may have said they are cannon when they were Run by microsoft that could have been pressure talking not truth. A lot of the universe here seems to be evolving (for lack of a better term) as newer media is being released.

But so much of this new media is being created AFTER Bungie lost creative control of the Halo. Back when the first three Halo books came, Bungie still had total creative control of the Halo universe, they were intimately involved in the the creation process for the books, giving Eric Nylund access to the Halo Bible, and offering advice and story line suggestions and corrections. Even Contact Harvest was written by a member of the Bungie team who's job it was to help create the story and Universe. The books were watched over by the original creators of the games, the people who really knew where the universe should go.



As the books were written when Halo was still in the hands of people who deeply cared about the universe and story, I will gladly take them as canon over anything that has been cranked out by the Microsoft money making assembly line after they got creative control from Bungie

 

[Brandon McClain]

If you check the other Halo: Reach thread, and interesting thought is brought up. It spawned from questions about the discrepancies in the ranking system. We know that Spartans are part of the Navy, but that the marines can requisition naval resources, the suggestion was made that perhaps the marines operate a branch of Spartans. To me this seems to solve some of the conundrums posed in previous posts. It would explain why we haven't heard about them yet, that they are neither Spartan IIs or IIIs, but rather a subgroub possibly produced by ONI with Halseys research and without her knowledge. It may also explain some of the differences in armor, materiel, designations and etc. You can check out the post here: http://405th.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=23368&st=0

To quote Spartan137 "Now, I did note one discrepancy. The SPARTAN program was under the command of the UNSC Navy, meaning that all the SPARTANs were given Naval ranks and insignias. BUT, the FNG, the number 6, was called "Lieutenant".



I did come up with a little theory for this. It's very possible that the UNSC Marines (or hell, the Army) decided to create their own class of SPARTANs. This theory fits somewhat, as the Marine Corps. operates through the Navy and has to request resources through them. Having their own contingent of SPARTANs would remove this problem and they would have their own group. "



Anyway, just thought I would share that idea, it seemed to plug a lot of holes in thinking about who would be involved.

 

[Cadet]

Anyway, to further muddle the debate on the origins and history of these Spartans, a while ago Eric Trautmann, who worked on the story of Halo for Bungie, and is the Author of the Art of Halo and once said:



"Re: Spartan strength: I am aware that there is an APPARENT discrepancy between the reported number of Spartans and the ACTUAL number of Spartans. Emphasis on APPARENT. We leave lots of hooks for future development buried in the text, to accomodate several ideas/stories we have percolating. Some may see the light of day, some may not. In general, its best to chalk such discrepancies up to "the fog of war" and if we get the chance, we've got a great explanation for the apparent discontinuity."



Seen here on HBO's Halo story page:

http://halostory.bungie.org/spartanroster.html

 

[kupokitty]

I have a list of about 26 Spartan II's and a couple Spartan III's. The Delta Squad Spartans aren't listed, though. I noticed that all of the III's have A, B, G, etc before their numbers.



The Halo Encyclopedia doesn't say much about the other II's.

 

[mooseguy04]

The Halo Encyclopedia doesn't say much about the other II's.

well, mainly cuz the Halo Encyclopedia was kinda garbage. I wasted my money on Halopedia with some pictures and less content

 

[kupokitty]

well, mainly cuz the Halo Encyclopedia was kinda garbage. I wasted my money on Halopedia with some pictures and less content

You know why they did that, don't you? They did it so they had more material to work with for upcoming games. They can't give all their secrets away.

 

[mooseguy04]

You know why they did that, don't you? They did it so they had more material to work with for upcoming games. They can't give all their secrets away.

True, I guess I was just wanted something that revealed a little more of the Halo lore we've come to know and love.

 

[Malechei]

What is with the questions about "Lone Wolf" being Navy just because he's called Lieutenant? The Navy has Lieutenants. They're the O3 pay-grade.



Two of you have implied that he's not Navy because he's a Lieutenant. Stop that. I don't want to have to throw things.

 

[kupokitty]

For the uninformed, the Navy has Lieutenant Junior Grades, Lieutenants, and Lieutenant Commanders.

 

[Spartan 051]

A few things i thought it would be helpful to point out:



3. The silent character is referred to as a Lieutenant. I'm pretty sure the only Lt. Spartan was Kurt-051 and he was promoted after he went MIA. Then again, It was implied that he was a survivor of Pegasi, and though an incredibly long and most likely wrong stretch,

Kurt>Spartan III>Pegasi Delta Assault

Also, ONI would have likely classified Kurt's Spartan III years. That is, assuming he somehow fought off those elites at the end of Onyx...then making it back to UNSC space in time for supper...not likely...

taken right off the halopedia on kurt so it could be fred or fhajad



"Kurt, Fred-104 and Fhajad-084 are the only SPARTAN-IIs to make the rank of an Office"

 

[Morphen Jar]

Screencapped as much as I could from the HD source and uploaded it all to Flickr, would have done it sooner but there was a power outage alst night just as the video was about to finish downloading :rolleyes



The full set of 109 images (19 are up now and the rest are processing) can be found in my Halo: Reach Reference set on Flickr.

Could you upload those in a zip or a rar file?

 

[Spartan 051]

just on a side note found this interesting

"Re: Spartan strength: I am aware that there is an APPARENT discrepancy between the reported number of Spartans and the ACTUAL number of Spartans.



Emphasis on APPARENT.



We leave lots of hooks for future development buried in the text, to accomodate several ideas/stories we have percolating. Some may see the light of day, some may not.



In general, its best to chalk such discrepancies up to "the fog of war" and if we get the chance, we've got a great explanation for the apparent discontinuity."

quoted by Eric Trautmann



http://halostory.bungie.org/spartanroster.html



Then found this on the same site above

Spartan II's - 1st group, 2517



150 original candidates out of which there was funding for only half (FoR Ch. 2)



75 total pre-augmentation (stated several times; FoR Ch.4 also mistakenly mentions "seventy-four"; as well, there other reports of 67, etc.)



30 died during surgery ("Thirty candidates had 'washed out' of the Spartan program; they died during the augmentation process." FoR Ch.7)



No names known

12 crippled in surgery (FoR Ch.7 "There were a dozen others, though, who had lived... but were no longer soldiers."; "The other dozen, suffering from side effects of the process, had been permanently reassigned within the Office of Naval Intelligence.")



Kirk

Fhajad-084

Rene

9 others left unnamed

33 left in the squad ("There were only thirty-two soldiers left in his squad [besides John?]" FoR Ch.7; "John glanced around the launch chamber; Sam, Kelly, and thirty others still stood at attention in their black dress uniforms [1+2+30=33]" FoR Ch.7; "The other Spartans stood at attention. Thirty-three - too many for this operation." FoR Ch. 9)



3 away (Gray Team; Adriana-111, Jai-006, Mike) on missions too distant to be easily recalled ("...save three, who are otherwise engaged on fields of combat too distant to be easily recalled." FoR Ch.26 [possibly Maria-062?])

3 Spartans MIA (KIA) over the past decade, 2542-2552; not including Samuel ("...there have only been three KIAs..." FoR Ch.26)

1 more Spartan (Samuel-034) MIA (KIA) during Covenant ship infiltration in 2525

1 Spartan seriously wounded, could not continue active duty ("...and one Spartan too wounded to continue active duty." [possibly Cassanndra?] FoR Ch.26)

This leaves 25 present at Reach before splitting into Red and Blue teams (with 3 more away making 28 active Spartans in total) which adds up and is confirmed during Halsey's briefing ("Clustered around him were two dozen Spartans: Fred, Linda, Joshua, James, and many others he had not spoken to for years...[2 dozen + John = 25]" FoR Ch.26)



However, it is stated that there are 30 Spartans at Reach at the beginning of H1/First Strike ("The primary storage bay had been converted into barracks for the thirty Spartans" FoR Ch.29; "Twenty-seven Spartans braced themselves... [plus the 3 in orbit = 30]" FS p.7). This is inconsistent with the number of 25 at Reach established earlier/above.



Regardless, from here they split into 2 teams:







Blue Team has 3 members:

John-117

Linda-058 is 'killed' but eventually revived

James is blasted of into space Frank Poole style, marked MIA

Red Team supposedly has 27 members (number mentioned several times; it "should" have 22):

4 KIA during the Reach freefall

Malcolm-059

3 others unnamed

Alpha Team: 3 members

Red 1: Frederic-104

Red 2: Kelly-087 (later abducted by Halsey; alive, but MIA)

Red 3: Joshua-029 (goes missing in LZ Assault; MIA, assumed KIA)

Beta Team: whoever is left from Red 4-11 and Red 13-20; either 11 or 6 Spartans depending on the accepted initial count

No members named

All MIA/KIA during generator defense

Gamma Team 3 members

Red 21: Anton-044, killed by a ship plasma bolt, MIA/KIA (FS p.235)

Red 22: Grace-093, who is later killed by Brutes aboard the Unyielding Hierophant, KIA (FS p.315)

Red 23: Li-008, killed by a ship plasma bolt, MIA/KIA (FS p.235)

Team Omega 3 members: Jerome-092, Alice-130, Douglas-042

Delta Team 6 members

Red 12: William-043

Red ?: Isaac-039, assumed dead retreating into Forerunner caves on Reach, MIA/KIA (FS p.148)

Red ?: Vinh-030, assumed dead retreating into Forerunner caves on Reach, MIA/KIA (FS p.148)

3 others unnamed, MIA/KIA

 

[kupokitty]

an you sir wrong

First of all, I am not a sir, and I was only posting that I had a list of 26 Spartans. I didn't say that's all there were! How could I be wrong for stating a fact?

 

[Spartan 051]

hey now i fixed my errors but what i was referring to was this

In Halo: Fall of Reach, it is stated that all of the 33 surviving SPARTAN-IIs, with the exception of Grey Team which has been described to be on a mission far outside the confines of UNSC space, now missing for over a year[6], were gathered at Reach. Dr. Halsey states that in the last decade, prior to 2552, only three SPARTAN-IIs had been confirmed KIA between 2542 and 2552, one of which is Samuel-034 who died in 2525, and one is too wounded to continue active duty. This places the number of surviving SPARTAN-IIs at an assumed number of 28, with only 25 assumed present at Reach.[7] However, this assumption does not take into account possible KIAs, MIAs, or WIAs for the time between Samuel-034's death in 2525, and 2542. In Halo: First Strike, three SPARTAN-IIs diverted from defending Reach's Orbital Defense Generators to destroying the UNSC Circumference's NAV database while the rest of the SPARTAN-IIs will proceed to Reach's surface.[8] Later in the book, it was revealed that a total of 27 SPARTAN-IIs in the Pelican headed for Reach's surface.[9] This puts the number of SPARTAN-IIs present at Reach at 30. This is consistent with Halo: Fall of Reach's number of active SPARTAN-IIs that were said to be present on Reach but again does not take into account of the KIAs, MIAs, or WIAs. The status of SPARTAN-IIs is muddied further in the later novels. For example, Kurt-051 is listed as missing in action presumed dead in 2531 when in reality, he was drafted into the SPARTAN-III Program until his real death in 2552 on Onyx. Three SPARTAN-IIs designated Gray Team were said to have been on "fields of battle too distant to be easily recalled" and apparently had made no contact with the UNSC prior to the Battle of Reach.[10][6]

taken from http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Spartan_II an from pages



6. 6.0 6.1 Halo: Ghost of Onyx, page 221

7. Halo: Fall of Reach, page 240

8. Halo: First Strike, page 3

9. Halo: First Strike, Page 7

10. Halo: The Fall of Reach, page 240



also thought i shoot this out here



isnt the new lone wolf a Lieutenants



http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Unidentified_Lieutenant_(Noble_Team)

 

[Rosh]

Everything I'm seeing still points toward a Spartan from grey team. Iknow Halsey says that they are hard to recall, but this is a society capable of trans light speed travel. If it's not a grey team Spartan then I'm stumped- being that we just ran down the list and noble team barely manages to fit in any circumstance. I'm almost positive it won't be a Spartan 3, and I doubt ONI had another Spartan 2 program running based on how ill recieved the first program was.



I bet we are seeing a grey team return. If not, it's going to be some kind of team that's like grey team. Why else would the Spartans treat the Lt like they had never seen him before?IMO he's grey.



Edit- when kat says commander she's getting 259's attention, he's the commander present.

 

[vert marine752]

is anyone brave enough to attempt to pep the helmets in the reference pictures?



It would be awesome and i would build it in an instant ;p

 

[Malechei]

Kat-320 refers to Carter as Commander. Lone Wolf is referred to as lieutenant. So Carter should either be a Lt Commander or Commander while Lone Wolf should either be a Lt Junior Grade or a Lieutenant.



Edit: Disregard. This post is irrelevant now that the post asking the question I'm answering has apparently been edited.