Weapon Builds. Canon Vs. Custom- The H3 Shotty

[juliet76]

Hello, I'm currently in the process of R & D'ing the Halo 3 shotty for my first weapon build and I'm thinking of toying with the design. But is such a thing frowned upon?

Now for what I want to do it needs to be modded anyway, I want to make it load and eject two or three shells and the slide actually sits too far back and covers up the ejection port when pumped (I've checked this in Forge and Theatre), and it's big- 48.8'' - which is long for a CQB weapon even though it is the huge 8 gauge Magnum. But that's not really the subject I want to discuss here, I want to make the shotty look even tougher.

I was thinking about shortening the barrel, magazine area (making it hold less rounds in real life) and slide (fixing the pump issue hopefully) and calling it the M90A-C (C for Compact or maybe Custom, if no one agrees with me on this whole concept). But it got me to thinking about the weapons in general and them being customised to suit their user, a practice which is done everyday by troops in combat zones. Accessories such as rails, magazines, reflex sights, scopes, laser sights, torches etc. from a variety of manufacturers are on M4's deployed overseas as well as different models with longer and shorter barrels. So why not on UNSC weapons?

Basically I guess I'm asking that if I build a M90A-C and post it on the forums will I get a flurry of posts telling me how it's not canon, or even just plain wrong?

What do you think? I'd especially like to hear from some of the guys on the forums that have been, or still are, in service. Thanks.

P.S. Before someone metions it- please don't think I'm talking about scaling. I want to discuss the types of mods/model varients that happen to real world guns applied to the Halo weapons.

 

[alsmail]

Dude...don't even worry about it...the silhouette is what makes it halo...
For the shotty, shell tube on top and action on the side...its halo....go for it!

 

[HeavyGunner]

Sounds awesome to me dude! This is the Halo universe we're talking about here. A place where just about anything goes. Including hammers that are 10 feet tall, and rifles that shoot burning hot molten plasma. I'm pretty sure that when you get into this hobby, you should be allowed a little bit of artistic license! But pretty much in a nustshell, you can do whatever the heck you want. Just be sure to have fun doing it! I would personally love to see an entirely new series of weapons for halo that were tailored specifically to the different perms. Like new Cqb weapons to go with the cqb armor, and long range stuff for the scout, etc. Oh! and lots of bombs and heavy weapons for the EOD!!!!! lol Good luck with this dude!

 

[juliet76]

Cool!

Thanks very much fellas. I think the reason I was concerned is because I've got a mate in the 501st and they can be a bit, well, *cough* anal *cough* about certain things.

...pretty much in a nustshell, you can do whatever the heck you want. Just be sure to have fun doing it! I would personally love to see an entirely new series of weapons for halo that were tailored specifically to the different perms. Like new Cqb weapons to go with the cqb armor, and long range stuff for the scout, etc. Oh! and lots of bombs and heavy weapons for the EOD!!!!! lol Good luck with this dude!

Man, I like your thinking! Weapon ranges for armor styles, now that's a cool idea.

 

[S1l3nt V1p3r]

I would go for it, man. Even futuristic weapons have different variants, like the M6 Pistol series. Why not the M90?
I'm even making a fixed stock for my M/7 SMG, "M/7 Tactical". ^^

 

[damagedame]

I love the idea of customizing the weapons! It may be personal, but being x-military we saw an extreme amount of custom weapon modding in Iraq, and every war. Part of it is done to suit the specialty of the soldier, as well as the combat type. Shorter barrel shotguns are common in Iraq due to house to house combat, as is the design of the M4 (a smaller version of the M16). Then you have custom attatchments like 203 gernade launches on the M4 and M16s as well as A4. Its common practice in the service.
I love the idea of customizing the weapons, and come one,... do we really believe the flame thrower just happened to have old school nose paint as a standard?
I cant wait to see what you will have as finished products.

 

[juliet76]

I'm even making a fixed stock for my M/7 SMG, "M/7 Tactical". ^^

After having a look at your ODST/MK VI build I look forward to seeing what you come up with for the SMG Viper.

I love the idea of customizing the weapons! It may be personal, but being x-military we saw an extreme amount of custom weapon modding in Iraq, and every war. Part of it is done to suit the specialty of the soldier, as well as the combat type. Shorter barrel shotguns are common in Iraq due to house to house combat, as is the design of the M4 (a smaller version of the M16). Then you have custom attatchments like 203 gernade launches on the M4 and M16s as well as A4. Its common practice in the service.
I love the idea of customizing the weapons, and come one,... do we really believe the flame thrower just happened to have old school nose paint as a standard?
I cant wait to see what you will have as finished products.

That's what I figured Dmage. I'm hoping to have a crack at building a test load/ejection system this easter weekend. I've been thinking about the shotty on and off for over a year now and I think I've finally got a design in mind that'll work. I downloaded google SketchUp with the hope of designing a 3D model before I picked up the tools, but at the rate I'm learning how to use it it'll be a hell of a lot quicker for me to just build a test rig!

 

[damagedame]

After having a look at your ODST/MK VI build I look forward to seeing what you come up with for the SMG Viper.
That's what I figured Dmage. I'm hoping to have a crack at building a test load/ejection system this easter weekend. I've been thinking about the shotty on and off for over a year now and I think I've finally got a design in mind that'll work. I downloaded google SketchUp with the hope of designing a 3D model before I picked up the tools, but at the rate I'm learning how to use it it'll be a hell of a lot quicker for me to just build a test rig!

you have me totally ecxited about what you're doing! And do up the test! sometimes its easier to find out if something work the old fashioned way, you know, sweat and dirt style. I had planned on modifying the weapons once i get comfortable with working with pep and building everything. might be a little farther off than i would hope, but this whole web community is so inspiring!

 

[S1l3nt V1p3r]

After having a look at your ODST/MK VI build I look forward to seeing what you come up with for the SMG Viper.

Here ^^:
http://405th.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=15035

 

[Crucible]

As far as I see, there's nothing implicitly wrong with slight modifications to your builds, as long as you don't go radically off-course and still try to call it 'Halo'. After all, variety is the spice of life.

 

[juliet76]

you have me totally ecxited about what you're doing! And do up the test! sometimes its easier to find out if something work the old fashioned way, you know, sweat and dirt style.

That's how I work best. Gotta build a test model, get it wrong six to eight times, throw it on the floor of the workshop, building something simple to make me feel better about my skills, have another crack at it the next day.

I had planned on modifying the weapons once i get comfortable with working with pep and building everything. might be a little farther off than i would hope, but this whole web community is so inspiring!

I have to agree. I'm not going to bother with the pep weapons though, scratch builds all the way. I want the weapons to be as robust as I can build and with as many working parts as I can get away with here in the land of Oz.

As far as I see, there's nothing implicitly wrong with slight modifications to your builds, as long as you don't go radically off-course and still try to call it 'Halo'. After all, variety is the spice of life.

I get where you're coming from Crucible. The way I figure it the modifications would use as many standard parts as possible even if it was a factory model. In the Halo universe we are at war after all and it's not so much about flashy designs in times of war as designing things that work reliably and cost/resource effectively. Even though we had the natural resources and factories of multiple planets to supply the UNSC I got the impression the we were losing ground to the Covenat at an alarming rate and therefore, those resources as well.

So I'm planing on sticking to the plans as close as I can by making more of a sub model rather than a new model.

P.S. Look forward to seeing your SMG custom finished Viper, keep us posted.

 

[Malechei]

Just take a look at what we do to weapons today. The last weapon I was issued in the Corps was an M4-A1 assault rifle. Then I threw a forward grip on it that had extendable bipod legs, my own holographic sight and an IR laser for marking targets through night-vision. The base weapon was still the same, but it was also very identifiable as my weapon. If Marines are doing that today, I can guarantee you that we'll be doing it 500 years from now (unless something goes horribly wrong). Just because we don't necessarily see it in the game doesn't mean it's not happening. As long as the base weapon stays pretty much the same, you can be canonical and customized.

And you shouldn't have anything to worry about as far as someone jumping down your throat because it's not "perfect". I'm still new here, but from what I can see, we just don't do that.

Anyway, best of luck. I'm curious to see how it turns out.

Mal

 

[juliet76]

Just take a look at what we do to weapons today.

I know what you mean.

... ...

 

[juliet76]

Okay, it certainly seems that modifying or adjusting models of the Halo weapons doesn't seem to bother anyone, yet, so let's start getting a bit more specific.

The M90A C.A.W.S aka: Halo 3 shotty.

What's wrong with this gun? Well as far as I'm concerned it's too frakking big for a Close Assault Weapon System (48.8''), but it's gotta be due to the enemy that it's used against (Brutes & shielded Elites) and the round that's required to do them damage.

The round it uses is the whopping 8 gauge magnum-

Those who don't know much about shotguns may be inclined to think that an 8 gauge sounds small especially in comparison to the 12 gauge commonly used in real life. Not so. The 8 gauge magnum round used by the M90A measures an impressive 88.9mm (3.5'') long and suits a bore of 21.208mm (0.8350''). As shotgun gauges are worked out on an odd system of how many lead balls fit in that diameter to equal one pound (see the table bellow for clarification) that makes it noticeably bigger than the diameter of the 12 gauge- 18.527mm (0.7294'').

But is it really that big? Well going off the round dimensions and M90A dimensions on Halopedia- yes it is. I've done a bit of measuring up on Wizard of Flight's fantastic blue prints and the load and ejection ports are just big enough to suit the 8 gauge magnum round. So I feel that means that the rest of the dimensions are accurate too which makes the damn thing big in real life! But is it too big?

The Benelli M3 Super 90 shotgun used by some police forces has a variety of stock and barrel options and can be up to 1200mm long (47.24''). Very close to the M90A's 1239mm (48.8''), but I doubt many police units would actually use a model that long, more likely it's found on the civilian market. Others measure in at around the 40'' mark like the SPAS 12 (41'') and the Remington model 870 tactical is available in up to 40''. But nothing in a military/police market comes close to the M90A's size that I have found.



That's why I started this thread and did a bunch of research, I want my first weapon build to be the shotty and I want it to load and eject, two possibly three rounds, and I want it to be accurate. But there's no way I'm going to lug around a full sized M90A at a con in armor, so I'm trying to develop a new model that looks good, is more con friendly and retains the look and feel of the original. But the shotty's got more bugs than just it's size.


Next post- The pump issue.

Links to references-
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms...esert_Recon.asp
http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh15-e.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franchi_SPAS-12
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun_shell...ameter_Formulas
http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/M90_Close_Assault_Weapon_System
http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Soellkraft_8_Gauge_Shell
I think that's all.

P.S. I am aware that this is a double post but I feel that enough time has elapsed and that the context is so notably different that the two posts warranted separation rather than editing together. -Juliet Joe.

 

[LeeKegan]

I have to agree. I'm not going to bother with the pep weapons though, scratch builds all the way. I want the weapons to be as robust as I can build and with as many working parts as I can get away with here in the land of Oz.

I agree! There are some awesome built pep weapons on here, but I favor the scratch built. I build and modify as I go!

 

[juliet76]

M90A C.A.W.S.- The pump issue.

While researching the M90A with the intention of building one, or a varient of it, I noticed something interesting on Wizard of Flight's blueprints of it- The back of the pump sits too close to the ejection port. I thought the plans looked right and so decided to check in-game. Sure enough when I re-watched some footage from forge in theatre the pump actually covers up the ejection port when slid back.

Pump forward.

Slid back covering ejection port.

The developers seem to have been aware of this and so "corrected" it by making the ejection port open and close at a different rate to the sliding of the pump. So after the pump is brought forward again the shell ejects and the port closes.

Shell ejection after pumped.

So that's how it is in-game, but that's not going to work in real life where the action of pulling the pump back ejects the spent cartridge and sliding it forward loads the next one. That's how I'm hoping to make mine, based on the real world design, as I can't figure how to make the game design work. But that means I need to change another of the design aspects, the pump postioning/size or ejection port location. Which has lead me to evolve the M90A-C that I started out designing, to the M90A-BD or Bulldog as I've come to call it.

Hope to post a design picture soon.

 

[LeeKegan]

Why don't you have that little section not be there in the grip.

 

[juliet76]

Why don't you have that little section not be there in the grip.

Maybe if you'd waited until I had the design picture posted...

 

[LeeKegan]

Maybe if you'd waited until I had the design picture posted...

Sorry

 

[Spawn Camp3r]

or you could move the ejection port back to above the trigger guard.
also you might look at this for ideas

notice how the mag works

also instead of moving the ejection port you could have the pump in locked position further up and when pulling back only go where it is forward in the game