Airsoft proofing

[Jake117]

ABS sounds like a good idea but I think Thorn has hit the nail on the head for the moment. For future reference, would it be possible to vacume form a helmet? because the mold making looks like a lot of work (and looks expensive too). I am willing to eventually do this but if theres an easier way, why not give it a try. Oh one last thing, what are normal airsoft/paintball masks made out of?

 

[Echo 199]

Some sort of polyethylene (prolly HDPE) would be my guess. Can anyone confirm this?

 

[Omega Ravager]

The mask is specially made of 3 layers of distinct fibers mainly- Pure Carbon fiber, Metallic fibers and Aramid plus Carbon fiber.

This is a quote from: http://www.airsoftmask.org/

IDK how legit it is, but I did some more research around the net and that seems to be a fairly reasonable assumption though.

OR

they're made out of a hard plastic. . . Depends on how expensive you go and if you're using metal or plastic BB's.


And my advice to Jake117 is to use your armor for something else, that's final and that's the stand the forum has to take to protect it from legal action.
If you build a helmet for airsoft with help and advice from this forum and you become injured we can be held liable if we don't warn you of the danger.

That said, if you do go through with this please extensively test the strength of your armor before even putting it on in a round of airsoft.
If it is going to break, you don't want it to happen while you are wearing it. Try shooting it from varying distances and with several guns if you can, especially the visor area, we don't want you going blind now. . .

Though just to let you know, this is a prop making forum, the arms and armors we build are not designed to withstand combat, impact or any sort of action, they are made solely for fun and use in costuming.

Still. . .

The choice is yours.

Omega

 

[Jake117]

Thanks for the advise everyone And please don't worry, I will be testing it as much as I can. At the moment Im only planning to make the helmet (and hopefully later a working Reach Sniper) so I'm hoping it wont cost TOO much. Anyway thanks again

Also, I dont think you could be liable for any kind of law suit because you have only advised me and secondly Im not a D**k Head. If I (touch wood) do get hurt then Ill have no one to blame but myself

 

[Agent Arizona]

Also, I dont think you could be liable for any kind of law suit because you have only advised me and secondly Im not a D**k Head. If I (touch wood) do get hurt then Ill have no one to blame but myself

Actually , yes we can. We are the ones who told you how to make it. This place has all the information of making the same armor you would be wearing. It would be our fault because we told you how to make something that got you hurt. This is why we have to warn people not to do this. Its just best for everyone that way.

 

[Tyvern]

@Fackmo: .117 metalic BBs aren't used as airsoft ammunition....they are usually for vermin killing.



everyone else: Paintballs travel at 280fps/150mph. Ive seen standard blue trash cans of a plastic material get hit from 32ft away and not shatter, I wouldn't suggest using a smooth cast helmet though...... EVA foam will withstand a paint ball, the hot glue joints probably wouldn't. At pointblank EVA will not stop the pain as I have learned through experiance with commerical paintball vests.

Airsoft soft bbs will fly through the air P.D.F.!(300-800fps/170-???mph) Not plausible to make halo armor that can survive a airsoft pellet shot from a distance or upclose, it will fly throught the eva foam like...Butter!

thread creator: I once thought I had the solution for making a paintball suit...wrong!!! and the only people who ever made as/pb halo suit armor was nightmare and they are outta business now.

 

[Jake117]

OK, I do get that this is not going to be easy, but it IS possible. Also airsoft BB's are powerful, but they arnt as powerful as some of you think. When testing its strength it couldn't shoot through that boxing tape (the brown one)

 

[Hickeydog]

One of Smooth On's products might be worth it. You'll have to build molds and cast it, but you could try Smooth Cast 65D. It's a flexible rubber sort of thing. It should to well to build impact resistant armor. I need to get some molding supplies and try this stuff out, but it looks promising for building action-oriented armor.

 

[Templar 320]

I posted this in General Discussion today. Might be of use to you guys.
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I have been doing A LOT of research, development, and testing on this subject for the last several months. Here's what I have got so far.

Most paintball chest protectors on the market are an EVA foam with Terry Cloth sewn over it. That makes decent undersuit armor.

In regards to hard armor, i.e. shoulder pauldrons, shin guards, chest pieces, etc., after a lot of research, I have decided that Kydex plastic is the best option. Kydex is a plastic that is used to make gun holsters and knife sheaths (I use it to make holsters on the side). Its waterproof, scratch resistant, and is remarkably impact resistant. I have been working on kydex ODST armor recently and after screwing up a shoulder piece that I had formed, I took it out back and shot it point blank with a paintball gun. Then for good measure, I emptied the rest of my hopper on it. The result? Not a scratch. As a plus, it comes in lots of different colors and styles (several camo textures also). Find Kydex here.

http://www.interstateplastics.com/se...arch+%3E%A0%A0

I have not yet tested any materials for the helmet. Paintball masks are made of injection molded polyethelene, but injection molders are an expensive proposition. Basically, you are looking for anything that has high impact-resistance. I am planning on casting my ODST helmet with TASK® 12 Series Liquid Plastic, which is supposedly indestructible. We shall see because I plan to put it to the test.. I will let you know whether it holds up to a paintball or not. Find TASK plastics here.

http://www.smooth-on.com/TASK=-Serie...157/index.html

Visors will be the most important part of this project because they protect the most important part of your body. Most are made of Polycarbonate. I use the Lexan brand. Find it here.

http://www.interstateplastics.com/Cl...t-POLCE-ST.php

As I come closer to having working paintball armor, I will create a thread in Creation Discussion.


Additional Post
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I forgot to mention something about the Kydex. I have a prototype ODST shoulder made of Kydex. I reinforced it with fiberglass (although the kydex is extremely impact resistant, it still bends slightly without support). The finished model is about half to 3/4x lighter than the pepped/bondoed model. Seriously, this thing has no weight to it. If heat is a huge concern, drill small holes. If done correctly and in good patterns, it can actually add to the armor. With an ODST rig though (I am using the Reach design), heat shouldn't be anymore of a concern than standard U.S. soldier gear (with the exception of the helmet).

 

[Jake117]

WOW! Thank you Hickeydog and Templar, thats EXACTLY what I was looking for. Also you seem to have really done your research templar again, thanks for the info. I think for my first try im going to go for the Smooth Cast 65D because i just dont have the money to get the materials youve suggested Templar, that and there is a 80% chance i will screw it up In the future I would love 2 make a whole armour set and thats when Ill splash out on the awesome materials. Cant wait to see your thread Templar

 

[Hickeydog]

WOW! Thank you Hickeydog and Templar, thats EXACTLY what I was looking for. Also you seem to have really done your research templar again, thanks for the info. I think for my first try im going to go for the Smooth Cast 65D because i just dont have the money to get the materials youve suggested Templar, that and there is a 80% chance i will screw it up In the future I would love 2 make a whole armour set and thats when Ill splash out on the awesome materials. Cant wait to see your thread Templar

Keep in mind that with 65D, you will HAVE to build the armor via pep first (harden with fiberglass or the material of your choice), shape the outside with bondo (like you normally would), and then make molds of everything and cast the pieces out of 65D. You're looking at a LOT of time and a LOT money if you're going go about it that way.

 

[Roadkiller]

I cannot understand why this discussion is continuing.

Templar, are you a certified safety expert able to give formal advice on the US requirements for the strength of impact protection of the type used in airsoft and paintball? If so, please quote your certifications. If not, please remember you are advising someone on how to build something that they have a good possiblity of getting injured in. We all know where that leads.

The 405th is a group dedicated to creating costumes in tribute to the Halo games.

They are not intended to be used for inherently dangerous hobbies such as airsoft or paintball. The equipment used in those sports is certified as safe for those activities.

If anyone were to use an idea or technique suggested on the 405th and get injured, it is possible that the staff here could be found liable. Therefore such discussions are normally closed and deleted when found by an administrator.

In short, if you enjoy airsoft or paintball, that is great! But please take discussion of your hobby to an appropriate forum. This is a forum to help you create a costume, not protective equipment.

If you aren't convinced, watch this video again:

 

[Jake117]

Roadkiller, I live in the UK. At my local airsoft field the ONLY rule that concerns cloths are that you have suitable eye wear. It doesn't matter in any way if the helmet fails because normally I go with just the standard cheap glasses/ goggles. I have also taken a spray of BB's across the face (by one of the martial suped up guns) and although it hurt, quite a bit, it was in no way dangerous. Basically, at the end of the day, any helmet that I make, with our without your help, will only be extra protection compared to what I normally use (goggles). If it would put your mind at ease just don't advise me on how to make the visor, Ill probably just end up cutting up my goggles and sticking them on anyway. One last thing, in the UK we barely ever sue people, my mum tripped over some wires in work last week and has been off work since she cant move her arm and even thought it was all caught on CCTV she is doing nothing about it. Don't know why were like this suppose we just are. Anyway to rap up, I'm not going to sue you, you've been far to helpfull and friendly

 

[Templar 320]

I cannot understand why this discussion is continuing.

Templar, are you a certified safety expert able to give formal advice on the US requirements for the strength of impact protection of the type used in airsoft and paintball? If so, please quote your certifications. If not, please remember you are advising someone on how to build something that they have a good possiblity of getting injured in. We all know where that leads.

The 405th is a group dedicated to creating costumes in tribute to the Halo games.

They are not intended to be used for inherently dangerous hobbies such as airsoft or paintball. The equipment used in those sports is certified as safe for those activities.

If anyone were to use an idea or technique suggested on the 405th and get injured, it is possible that the staff here could be found liable. Therefore such discussions are normally closed and deleted when found by an administrator.

In short, if you enjoy airsoft or paintball, that is great! But please take discussion of your hobby to an appropriate forum. This is a forum to help you create a costume, not protective equipment.

If you aren't convinced, watch this video again:

I am not sure if you have been reading what we have been talking about, but we have been discussing ways to make armor out of materials that will not succumb to the force of a paintball. Everyone here knows fiberglass armor will not do the trick. There is always someone who screams it at the top of their lungs every time a thread like this is started. We are trying to come up with solutions that will rectify the problem.

I am not an official safety expert (I am really not sure what position you are actually referring to), but I sure as hell have done my research. Kydex will take a paintball at point blank range. Commercial paintball chest protectors are made of EVA foam and Terry cloth (and are not certified for anything). Almost all paintball lenses are made of Polycarbonate. Thermal lenses are made out of two layers of Polycarbonate in order to catch an air pocket inbetween (prevents fog). All of those statements are indisputable facts. I only made one conjecture (Task 12 Plastic may or may not stop a paintball) and I made sure that everyone knew it was an untested statement. I am very well aware of what I am advising, sir.

The difference between you and I is that I approach this from the standpoint of liberty while you look at it from the standpoint of fear. When I see this, I see an opportunity to expand this community's knowledge and even create a new facet of prop armor making! If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. The only thing we have to gain is knowledge. You, on the other hand, look at this as an opportunity to get hurt. People will get blinded and/or sued. The whole universe will implode if someone creates faulty armor. That all may or may not happen, but I will not let that fear run my life.

Think about it this way. In a plane, there is a chance it could explode. There is a chance that the pilot will fall asleep and the plane will crash. There is a chance that while I stand up to let my brother get out to go to the restroom, turbulence knocks the hot cup of coffee out of my hand and sends it flying onto the passenger beside me resulting in a lawsuit. Does that mean I should never fly? Absolutely not. I will not let that fear control me or my behaviors.

I swear to you that I am not trying to be mean. I only want you to realize something. This country has become so afraid of every little shadow that it stifles ingenuity. We could really be on to something in this thread. If we let fear rule us, we will never be able to realize the full potential of this idea. We may not be onto anything at all. We will test the hell out of it and if it doesn't work, its our loss, not yours. Watch October Sky. Think they had any safety certifications?

Let me end by saying this. America has historically been a nation of problem solvers. If it is to survive, it will stay a nation of problem solvers. If we can figure out how to land a man on the moon, then we can sure as hell figure out how to stop a paint filled plastic ball.

 

[Jake117]

I also dont see how this site could be liable for advise given about and unknown subject. If one of your members had said "use (insert material) to make your helmet" and it had failed on me then MAYBE just maybe you may be liable but I think you have made it quite clear to me that this is all experimental and you are not endorsing it. All that has been said are just suggestions and theories and they may not be 100% safe. At the end of the day, if this gets made Im going to but on my goggles under the helmet for the first couple of games just to make SURE that its 100% safe. I can understand where your coming from. It is quite well known that in america people getting sued is quite bad and even becoming problem but please trust me in saying that such a case wouldn't even stand a chance in the UK.

Anyway if this helps: I officially understand that the information given to me by this forum and/or any of its members may or may not be correct or accurate regarding any aspects of discussion. Any and all things made with the help or guidance of this forum and/or its members may or may not be up to the safety standards that are required in airsofting, paintballing or any similar sport and so take it that any injuries or death in such a sport will be accountable to only myself (Jake Harry Sumecki).

Now I'm no lawyer but if I ever were to sue you on the basis of providing faulty information that got me injured I'm pretty sure holding that little paragraph up will provide a pretty much watertight defence chill out people

 

[Roadkiller]

So no one from the US talking about making the equipment "safe" is ANSI Safety certified? Specifically in testing visors, googles, etc to meet ANSI standard Z87.1?

 

[Templar 320]

So no one from the US talking about making the equipment "safe" is ANSI Safety certified? Specifically in testing visors, googles, etc to meet ANSI standard Z87.1?

Really? That's all you got from everything that I said?

 

[Jake117]

FFS! If people are so retarded that they make a rubbish helmet out of untested materials and then get hurt I think it can only be their fault. Besides Im pretty sure its called natural selection!

 

[Roadkiller]

Tangent, yep.

You went off on some tangent about liberty, and I stand on the front lines of that every day. I don't need to be lectured about it, so I tuned you out.

 

[Jake117]

Ok I think this is going a tad off topic. Please accept that Im not going to sue you so we can just get on with this (even thought I think Ive got my answers).