"Help!" for: Fiberglassing, Resin, & Bondo

[Katsu]

Really you can leave them just out on a porch for a couple hours. Resin takes 1-5 hours, bondo is like 30-120 minutes.

Be warned, both will stink for a few days, but it won't permeate nor stick to things like the wet resin will, I'd still keep them in an out of the way place when storing them though.

 

[joemc81]

yeah I didnt want to bring them in at night and have any bad fumes floating around since I sleep up stairs

 

[Vinco]

I was looking over the instructions and i noticed that it says to fiberglass the inside of the helmet. Now i dont know if everyone else actually wears theirs but i will be wearing mine, will fiberglass interior pose a problem? and if so what alternative could i take to ensure i could wear it?

Thanks in advance

 

[Aster Tea]

I was looking over the instructions and i noticed that it says to fiberglass the inside of the helmet. Now i dont know if everyone else actually wears theirs but i will be wearing mine, will fiberglass interior pose a problem? and if so what alternative could i take to ensure i could wear it?

Thanks in advance

It really depends on what you use. The fiberglass mat will end up with more pokies than the fiberglass cloth, but you can just sand them down or put a layer of rondo over it. If you choose to put padding, it should protect you from getting poked too.

 

[Katsu]

Just to add a bit to the already posted good advice.

Smoothing the inside is important. You have a few options depending on what you want to do:

If you want it out quick and dirty, you'd use fiberglass mat and toss in two layers. this creates the aforementioned "pokies" which can be ground down with a dremel or mouse-backed sandpaper (you can use just sandpaper but then you'll stab yourself a lot). And then smooth it with a layer of rondo

If you want good options for smoothing the outside, and having a very smooth inside, you should rondo the inside first, and then layer fiberglass CLOTH (it's different from mat) over that in two layers, and then do another layer of rondo over that. The very first layer of rondo will pre-smooth the interior of the helmet, as the pokers are created when the fiberglass can't lay down correctly (or your brush starts to grab it, but that happens more with MAT and less with CLOTH). This will create a very strong, very smooth interior that will protect the helmet when you sand the outside, as that first layer of rondo also serves as a buffer zone to sand into, in case you need to sand through the paper.

Either way, once you've done one of the above options, you want to spray the inside with a heavy thickness primer of your choice. This will seal the chemicals so you're not inhaling them when wearing the helmet. And as aster mentioned, padding is a very good investment, not only for protection from fiberglass, but it's just plain uncomfortable to wear without it.

 

[Thugzz Deluxxxe]

Decent in this case doesn't only mean good quality, but the respirator also needs to have a filter for organic fumes. For the sanding later you'll need a dust filter as well. Remember that filters will only filter what they are supposed to filter; there are combination filters that suck up a whole range of unhealthy stuff, and there are also filters that only work against a very specific substance. The latter are cheaper, but by no means worse, if you know what you're up against. Also keep in mind that filters wear out, fume filters will then start to let smell through and particle filters will just clog up. Breathing through them without any hazardous material around will also wear them out, as will time. (So.. do not buy cold-war military masks because you feel supercool in them!)

You'll also have to gloves and I'd highly recommend safety glasses, if you're not wearing a full-face mask.



The resin/hardener ratio always depends on the product you're using and it will always be in the instructions, which should of course be read and understood before even thinking about opening the can.

There are many tutorials in text or video form that teach you how to resin, fiberglass or rondo things, you should watch and read those first. Hoewever, some, especially of the video kind, don't really show safety so well. I'm thinking of tuts where the hero would point out his mask and let the camera man put his nose into the newly resined helmet without one, for example, or of vids where people wear masks of the wrong type.

Ventrue knows what he's talking about. Safety first. I love seeing people getting into the more involved parts of DIY but you always have to know what you're working with. Resin and Fiberglass can be pretty volatile materials. I've seen resin ignite after someone put too much catalyst in it (read the label of whatever resin you get). It can also cause nerve damage if you expose it to your skin for too long. Just know the risks going in.

 

[Manix]

Can someone explain Rondo to me, how would you go about mixing the bondo with the resin? and how much of each do you use? Does this effect the drying time?

 

[Katsu]

This is a good reference for getting started with rondo:
http://www.405th.com/showthread.php/32008-Rondo-A-Photo-Guided-Tutorial

Generally, 50/50 bondo/resin will give you a very very runny mixture that is good for getting into hard to reach places, and giving a thinner, more even coverage of the interior. 60/40 or 70/30 bondo/resin will give you a much thicker, easier to work with mixture that is better for keeping good control over a small area. There is no one right answer for how much to use, it's all about personal needs and preferences. I personally also prefer to mix both the bondo hardener and the resin hardener, but I've seen people get away with just the bondo hardener. I just have so much of both I try to get rid of them. Drying time is going to be closer to that of bondo's, if not a bit less. The mixture gets a LOT hotter than bondo or resin alone, so be careful when touching it.

Good luck! If the linked article and my add-on don't answer, feel free to ask for elaboration.

 

[Vinco]

Thanks for the answer Katsu just one more for now. As far as fiberglass matting and rondoing the inside, should that come before i do anything to the outside? Also I am unsure how to put the visor on. I am making a daft punk guy manuel helmet. And i know how to make the actual visor but am unsure how to get it on without having to cut through rondo (which is almost impossible from what i hear). Do i just put it on an cover it up or what?

 

[Katsu]

Thanks for the answer Katsu just one more for now. As far as fiberglass matting and rondoing the inside, should that come before i do anything to the outside? Also I am unsure how to put the visor on. I am making a daft punk guy manuel helmet. And i know how to make the actual visor but am unsure how to get it on without having to cut through rondo (which is almost impossible from what i hear). Do i just put it on an cover it up or what?

I am always happy to help as much as I can so don't worry!
Resin is the first thing you do after pepakura. One layer of resin on the outside and 0 to 2 layers on the inside. This helps reinforce the cardstock enough to handle the weight of rondo or fiberglass.
It is actually very easy to cut through rondo and fiberglass so long as you have a decent rotary tool. You have a few options though.
1) cut the visor out in pepakura stage. This is my least favorite, as the visor usually does a very good job of holding the structure of the helmet so it doesn't sag during Resin stage. This option is only if you don't have access to a rotary tool.
2) cut the visor out after the resin stage but before rondo. This is the balanced option. It is fairly easy to cut out at this stage, and the resined pepakura SHOULD be strong enough to hold its own at this point without the visor. The downside is that there is a risk of crumpling the piece, as even with three layers of resin, it is still susceptible to crumpling.
3) cut the visor out after rondo+fiberglass. This is my favorite option. It will damage the visor a bit, but that's what bondo is for! This way is for those who will be using the visor as a buck for vacuum or mold casting, as it ensures the visor will fit as awesomely as possible. The downside is it is a bit harder to do, and is impossible without a rotary tool. The following pages show my progress from cutting out the visor to vacuum forming:
http://www.405th.com/showthread.php/36142-Reach-for-the-Front!/page4
http://www.405th.com/showthread.php/36142-Reach-for-the-Front!/page6
http://www.405th.com/showthread.php/36142-Reach-for-the-Front!/page7

It's your call though, each has their reasons and drawbacks.

 

[Vinco]

Ok so i dont have a rotary tool but after looking around a bit, i think i could easily afford one but i really dont want to spend over 50$ on it. Would something like this work?

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...3&langId=-1&keyword=rotary+tool&storeId=10051

as long as it comes with the cutting attachment (as this one does) i should be ok right?

Thanks again, you are a great help

 

[Katsu]

Yeah, I've heard of people having decent luck with the budget rotaries. If you want one that will last you forever though, I'd just spring the extra twenty bucks (over your budget) for a Dremel.
http://www.amazon.com/Dremel-4000-2...ie=UTF8&qid=1340335969&sr=8-3&keywords=dremel
For nearly the same price, you get something pretty much synonymous with awesome.

With the cheaper ones it's hit or miss. If you take good care of it and don't push it too hard, it could serve well, but they usually suffer from RPM issues when applying pressure, as the most obvious place to cut costs is the motor, but you may never experience that if you don't use it on thick wood, metal, or dense fiberglass. Again though, it depends on usage and needs. I have pretty high demands of my rotary, but if you don't intend to do a lot of heavy duty cutting and grinding, the home depot one may serve you very well. If your budget demands a cheaper version, then you probably won't be very disappointed. I just have used dremel 4000's for nigh a year now and love them, sooo I'm a SMIDGE biased.

 

[Tafoya007]

I believe that is correct. I have not personally done it, but you can probably find a tutorial on the internet somewhere.

Thanks alot i found a video on how to properly mix the two:cool

 

[DNX]

Hey guys,

About to do my first prop.
I have read/viewed alot of tutorials, the thing is, people use alot of different materials/methods.
Just to get it straight:

Pepakura model
Resin on the outside
Fiberglass on the inside (you put a strip of fiberglass on the inside and put resin on top of it. Fiberglass the ENTIRE inside?)
Sand the outside
Paint it
Visor
Done?

Sorry if this is a rather large question!

-DNX

 

[Biocreative]

I might be posting in the wrong thread, but would reinforcing the inside of pieces (like the chest on a Marine) with thick foam and resining the outside work? I am rondoeing all my parts for my Marine build so far, and I wanted to know if I could cut some corners. It seems like it would give it a sturdy yet flexible feel.

 

[Katsu]

Hey guys,

About to do my first prop.
I have read/viewed alot of tutorials, the thing is, people use alot of different materials/methods.
Just to get it straight:

Pepakura model
Resin on the outside
Fiberglass on the inside (you put a strip of fiberglass on the inside and put resin on top of it. Fiberglass the ENTIRE inside?)
Sand the outside
Paint it
Visor
Done?

Sorry if this is a rather large question!

-DNX

The reason for the different methods is because there are different needs of different people, and different preferences. Almost all of the difference is on the inside of the piece. On the outside you always have
pepakura -> resin -> bondo -> sanded
On the inside you can go
1 pepakura -> resin -> fiberglass -> fiberglass
or
2 pepakura -> resin -> rondo
or
3 pepakura -> fiberglass
or
4 pepakura -> rondo
or
5 pepakura -> resin -> rondo -> fiberglass -> fiberglass -> rondo

4 is the easiest, but the least strong. 5 is my personal favorite because it is designed for modding the helmet, and having a nearly invincible piece, but it is heavier than the others. Fiberglass+fiberglass is the best strength for the least weight, but it won't work as well on complex helmets with lots of tiny details, since it doesn't lay on corners and small indents. They all have their strengths, 1 3 and 5 are the strongest, 4 is good if you are only wearing it lightly or don't care what happens to it, or are just mold casting it.

I might be posting in the wrong thread, but would reinforcing the inside of pieces (like the chest on a Marine) with thick foam and resining the outside work? I am rondoeing all my parts for my Marine build so far, and I wanted to know if I could cut some corners. It seems like it would give it a sturdy yet flexible feel.

You can do whatever you want. Whether it works well or not is another question that can only really be answered by trying it yourself. One thing to be wary of, resin is pretty toxic and crazy, and you want to make sure it will play nice with the foam and not dissolve it or something weird.

I think if you are trying to avoid bondo/resin, or are cutting corners for safety or cost reasons, you may want to go with just straight EVA foam, and forego the resin and bondo outright. 30 bucks buys you probably enough foam for a full suit, but unless you are incredibly meticulous and skilled with craft foam, it won't look as nice as a pepakura'd piece. That's the thing about cutting corners, you can't cut corners without sacrificing quality either in strength or looks, but if you're good with EVA foam, it's not really cutting corners though!

 

[MTL616]

Ok what kind of Resin should i use for the helmet/all other peices of armor and will regular printer paper withstand the resin it wont like eat through it or any thin


Thx, MTL616

 

[Lornex117]

Regular printer will work, but it requires so much more work that it just isn't worth it. Regular paper won't stand the bending forces and have very low tensile strength. Meaning you will constantly rip, tear, mangle, and generally destroy the paper because it isn't up to the task. Let alone when you resin the paper it will get wet gooey and won't have compression force because it is a weak material to begin with.

I know the reason you're asking is because card stock is expensive and you don't know if you will follow through but if you are serious then card stock is well worth it.

Either that, or cut out the same design six times and waste money and time on **** printer paper

 

[Lornex117]

Oh also, any type of polyester fiberglass resin should work fine

 

[SergantTinkers]

Aqua resin is a choice some people use as well for resin. The reason being that aqua resin is non-toxic, and much more safe to use than fiberglass resin, while usually being a more expensive choice. That being said, I do have a question:

A common practice for building torso models as well as other pieces is to split the model before painting. My question is what tool do you use to split a fiberglassed and bondo-ed piece? Is it a rotary tool, or some other device?