LiveSpartan
New Member
Isnt there an official soundtrack for halo? Whats to stop you from playing it on your mp3 player, iPhone, iPod etC?
***MICROSOFT RELEASES NEW GAME CONTENT USAGE RULES***
- Thread starter Dootuz
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Hi, I'm new here, and I must say this clarification of the legal issues by Microsoft is quite disturbing. I was just wondering, I heard that a while back someone auctioned off a Mjolnir suit on Ebay for some 20 grand or so. Would such a thing now be illegal?
Half of me thinks yes, because 20 grand is quite a chunk of change.
Half of me thinks no, because who's to say that the time he spent working on that suit isn't worth 20 grand?
So let's say someone from this community makes something truly astonishing. They put it up on Ebay and get 50 grand for it. Did they just break the law? They haven't mass produced it, they just put a single item up for auction and got rich... is that illegal?
Half of me thinks yes, because 20 grand is quite a chunk of change.
Half of me thinks no, because who's to say that the time he spent working on that suit isn't worth 20 grand?
So let's say someone from this community makes something truly astonishing. They put it up on Ebay and get 50 grand for it. Did they just break the law? They haven't mass produced it, they just put a single item up for auction and got rich... is that illegal?
CPU64
Well-Known Member
I've been getting offers for armor every single day for the past 3 years. Some as high as 6 grand. I haven't sold anything yet for fear of the ninjas.
But if you think about it, the armor you make, is not really "game content" you didn't extract it like a seed that you put in the dirt, water, fertilize and POOF! There's your armor.
I made my own armor and there's nothing they can do about it. And if I wanted to sell armor, all I need to do is change 15% of the detail and its all gravy.
It sickens me when a company that has so much money, worries about little people who make things in appreciation for a game they love so much.
One thing they should realize. every single halo related item that we make, takes time and money. meanwhile, Microsoft is renting DVDs for $70+. Unless they "worked" on each copy of the game that gets released, they shouldn't have so much to nag about.
But if you think about it, the armor you make, is not really "game content" you didn't extract it like a seed that you put in the dirt, water, fertilize and POOF! There's your armor.
I made my own armor and there's nothing they can do about it. And if I wanted to sell armor, all I need to do is change 15% of the detail and its all gravy.
It sickens me when a company that has so much money, worries about little people who make things in appreciation for a game they love so much.
One thing they should realize. every single halo related item that we make, takes time and money. meanwhile, Microsoft is renting DVDs for $70+. Unless they "worked" on each copy of the game that gets released, they shouldn't have so much to nag about.
CaelenVasius
New Member
First off, yes, fan art (includes fanfic) is still legal, reread the link. What they did say is that MS can use your fanart without paying you or giving you credit because it is their IP, but other than that, you are free to do it. Now while technically machinima is a part of fanart, MS has given specific rules governig it, so we'll have to look at it separately.
To this day, all Halo-related merchandise and products have been liscened and sanctioned by Bungie and MS. This includes RvB, the action figures, WizKids' HaloClix, the books, the soundtracks, the comics, and even GameFuel (which i think actually tates decent...). RvB stopped because they want to pursue another IP, but they are still allowed to sell their DVDs, and probably will do so for quite some time.
Yes, pepakura is illegal, by definition; we rip the ingame 3d model and transfer it into a physical model. Now, while the process of pep is illegal, then end result IS NOT, because not even the best among us (Adam and Link, namely, although Spase is pretty good) can mass produce our items, nor would we stand to make much of a profit by doing it one at a time. Mass Production is defined by Webster's as "the production or manufacture of goods in large quantities, esp. by machinery and division of labor." What we do is commission; whether or not we do it for ourselves or another is superfluous. I highly doubt that any of us has the means to mass produce our items. I know wombat#### (I can never remember the 4 numbers he has after his screen name) has access to a CNC machine, but even he would not be able to mass produce it.
Vaccuum molded pieces are a whole other story though. You are not ripping ingame assets for use in your craft, you are hand making the original prototypes/molds. The pep argument has no place in here. Vaccuum molders are relatively safe, as long as they dont try to mass produce their pieces.
As for soundtracks and audio effects:
You cannot use your item to promote a commercial venture...so your costume contests are ok, unless the costume contest itself is a promotion of a commercial venture; otherwise the holder(s) of said contest are at fault, not the maker/wearer of the armor. Anime-kon, Otakon, Comic-con, Dragon-con, whatever, is all still safe, as these events are not representative of a commercial venture. But let's say you were making a car, and promoted it by having the Master Chief drive it around...that's CR Infringement, and therefore illegal.
And as for the possible Bungie sanction of our wonderful community here...while Bungie still owns Halo, MS has the IP (Intellectual Property) rights to it. This means that if Bungie wants to make another Halo game, MS must be the publisher/distributor. This is the same reason Halo Wars can be made completely separate from Bungie Studios; I said "can", not "is", as Bungie is offering artistic assistance to the company making Halo Wars (Ensemble Studios). MS is the producer/distributor of Halo Wars, and have the complete rights to it and all merchandising.
So, now that my fingers are cramping up, I hope I've cleared up a bit of the confusion surrounding this topic. Argue with me if you feel the need to, but please keep it sane and considerate; I'm not trying to start a flame war here, and I don't want to give the mods more work than necessary cleaning up rude and/or inconsiderate posts. From what I've seen here this doesn't seem to be a problem, but I'd rather not be the start of the fire.
To this day, all Halo-related merchandise and products have been liscened and sanctioned by Bungie and MS. This includes RvB, the action figures, WizKids' HaloClix, the books, the soundtracks, the comics, and even GameFuel (which i think actually tates decent...). RvB stopped because they want to pursue another IP, but they are still allowed to sell their DVDs, and probably will do so for quite some time.
Yes, pepakura is illegal, by definition; we rip the ingame 3d model and transfer it into a physical model. Now, while the process of pep is illegal, then end result IS NOT, because not even the best among us (Adam and Link, namely, although Spase is pretty good) can mass produce our items, nor would we stand to make much of a profit by doing it one at a time. Mass Production is defined by Webster's as "the production or manufacture of goods in large quantities, esp. by machinery and division of labor." What we do is commission; whether or not we do it for ourselves or another is superfluous. I highly doubt that any of us has the means to mass produce our items. I know wombat#### (I can never remember the 4 numbers he has after his screen name) has access to a CNC machine, but even he would not be able to mass produce it.
Vaccuum molded pieces are a whole other story though. You are not ripping ingame assets for use in your craft, you are hand making the original prototypes/molds. The pep argument has no place in here. Vaccuum molders are relatively safe, as long as they dont try to mass produce their pieces.
As for soundtracks and audio effects:
Later in that bullet you read about the agreement between MS and O’Donnell/Salvatori, Inc., composers of the music. This allows you to use any music from the Bungie Halo games that feature music made by them, as long as the result is non-profit. Easy enough, considering the vast majority of machinima is non-profit; I think RvB being the only one that has ever really sold anything. I dont know about the music for Halo Wars, so I can't say anything there. As for the audio effects, their inclusion of this is somewhat petty; how is one supposed to make an audio/video work without the use of the ingame SFX? I highly doubt MS will prosecute machinima makers for the use of SFX.
You cannot use your item to promote a commercial venture...so your costume contests are ok, unless the costume contest itself is a promotion of a commercial venture; otherwise the holder(s) of said contest are at fault, not the maker/wearer of the armor. Anime-kon, Otakon, Comic-con, Dragon-con, whatever, is all still safe, as these events are not representative of a commercial venture. But let's say you were making a car, and promoted it by having the Master Chief drive it around...that's CR Infringement, and therefore illegal.
And as for the possible Bungie sanction of our wonderful community here...while Bungie still owns Halo, MS has the IP (Intellectual Property) rights to it. This means that if Bungie wants to make another Halo game, MS must be the publisher/distributor. This is the same reason Halo Wars can be made completely separate from Bungie Studios; I said "can", not "is", as Bungie is offering artistic assistance to the company making Halo Wars (Ensemble Studios). MS is the producer/distributor of Halo Wars, and have the complete rights to it and all merchandising.
So, now that my fingers are cramping up, I hope I've cleared up a bit of the confusion surrounding this topic. Argue with me if you feel the need to, but please keep it sane and considerate; I'm not trying to start a flame war here, and I don't want to give the mods more work than necessary cleaning up rude and/or inconsiderate posts. From what I've seen here this doesn't seem to be a problem, but I'd rather not be the start of the fire.
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Sean Bradley
Sr Member
Wow, somebody actually used reason in this thread... instead of fear and superstition...!
Nice analysis there Caelen... probably the most comprehensive explanation of how the rules affect what we're doing, to date.
CaelenVasius
New Member
Thanks Sean, it took me a good long while to analyze that and write up the response.
Also, thanks 23Magnum, you saved me from the extra research, lol.
People, we can continue doing this as we've always done. MS's new rules really have not much effect on us as the 405th, so just make sure you don't test their lawyers, and we'll all be fine.
And now im off to go do a batch of fiberglassing...hopefully I'll be able to do all my pieces today...
Also, thanks 23Magnum, you saved me from the extra research, lol.
People, we can continue doing this as we've always done. MS's new rules really have not much effect on us as the 405th, so just make sure you don't test their lawyers, and we'll all be fine.
And now im off to go do a batch of fiberglassing...hopefully I'll be able to do all my pieces today...
I think MS's stance is pretty much 100% reasonable. Does anyone here seriously think they should be allowed to make knock off items to sell and not get in trouble for it? I'm a 501st member, and we have ways of working with rules like these.
That may be true in some cases, but plenty of people are modeling things from scratch, then making them in pep, Others use clay. This is perfectly legal as long as its for your own use. I dont see what people are upset about. MS is actually incouraging fan created content in various forms, they're just asking that we do it respectfully and dont try to profit on things you dont own, which is in essence, the same as piracy.
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kratoas
New Member
Sean Bradley said:
hmmm....so you cant even make your own armour even if you dont sell it......? thats not a bright move...
target your fans.......well they may just lose their fans..lol said:
although it would be interesting to see on tv.....
lollol said:
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war veteran117
Jr Member
wow.....thats a whole page of BS man...
charlie tuna
Member
If Bungie wanted to make Halo4 or whatever name they decided to give it, the first thing would be do a storyboard and maybe a demo then running them by MS to see if they like the ideas. If they get the ok then they can talk about who's going to be publisher/distributor of the new game. Since MS holds the IP rights they get first crack but they can licence Bungie to do it, same with Halo Wars
Technically this is an IP violation because you are taking actual data files out of the game but you can't go from there to usable mesh in Pep without a good deal of adjustments it would, if challenged, likely fall under 'derivitive work' therefore protected under existing laws that allow fan art and fanfic.
Right, since that is a copyright violation and doing so would get you slapped sideways by C&Ds and be visited upon by 'suits' that would make the Covenant forces seem nice.
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vypr907
New Member
Warmonger said:
Very nice... a thought... is not the battle rifle and assault rifle described as being "gas-powered" anyways? I'm already working on modding my Spyder MR2 into a sidearm, so it's totally doable. I'm going to be running nitrogen so that once I build my armor, I can play in the winter! (North Pole, Alaska can get a little cold, but not as cold as most people think!)
Arctic camo all the way! Lol, by the time I get my suit built, tech will have progressed to the point where I can incorporate a real HUD into my helmet.. either that, or I'll study my Aunt's Corvette...
-vypr
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sk8er4life
Well-Known Member
Thats microsoft. But bungie split up from microsof. Does that effect anything?
GruntOfAction
Well-Known Member
If mass selling is illegal shouldn't Westerfluke studios be shut down by now?
charlie tuna
Member
Not when they have a licence to sell Halo armor which both them and Nightmare studios have to have since they are selling the armor.GruntOfAction said:
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Jarhead said:
Neither do but both are different enough from the Chief to not be infringing. NAS won that legal battle (yes there were lawyers involved), and that is one of the things that Chris Bryan was referencing above.
However, both do not mass produce or call their creations Mjolnir Armor or Master Chief Armor(that is infringing). NAS says this themselves if you dig through some similar older threads on the same subject here.
And technically NAS does not sell that type of armor on the public market anymore. If you're lucky you might get them to do something on comission or pick up something on ebay but that's about it.
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