Ok, Iran. Come Inside, Learn What's Happening.

[M07Marauder]

Can anyone say thread war? .

Calm down guys it's cool, no one is assaulting your views just showing you there own.

Let's keep it civil and on topic .

 

[DogWizard]

Oh wait - NOW he's appalled...

Appalled...

Now that everything is winding down and it's slowly falling out of the news. Now that the big iron-shod boot is firmly back on the people's throats. Way to take a stand Mr. President, what an shining example you set for the rest of the world. I believe they call that "situational ethics"...

Hopefully these people (the actual people, not the lunatics in charge) are getting a better understanding of what their government truly thinks about them and their place in the universe. My heart goes out to those people trying to take a stand for what they believe and being beaten and killed for it. Courage indeed...

 

[Sean Bradley]

There's VERY good reason to stay out of Iran's affairs.

Since 2005, Iran's Nuclear Program has become the subject of contention with the West because of the Western suspicions that Iran could divert the civilian Nuclear technology to a weapons program. This has led the UN Security Council to impose sanctions against Iran on select companies linked to this program, thus furthering its economic isolation on the international scene.

The Islamic Republic of Iran has two types of armed forces: the regular forces Islamic Republic of Iran Army, Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force, Islamic Republic of Iran Navy and the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC), totalling about 545,000 active troops. Iran also has around 350,000 Reserve Force totaling around 900,000 trained troops. Iran has not invaded any country over the past two centuries. Iran has a paramilitary, volunteer militia force within the IRGC, called the Basij, which includes about 90,000 full-time, active-duty uniformed members. Up to 11 million men and women are members of the Basij who could potentially be called up for service; GlobalSecurity.org estimates Iran could mobilize "up to one million men". This would be among the largest troop mobilizations in the world.

I mean I know we're the World Police and all, but really... Iran is one country we don't want to mess with, and certainly not in the current economic state. It would destroy our country economically and drag us into ANOTHER un-winnable war. One at a time is enough.

I understand Obama's reticence to react here... I believe it's self-preservation. I don't hear anyone coming up with a better plan.

Injustices like this happen every day, not every one requires that the US get involved.... this one just so happens to come with a war agenda attached.

 

[DogWizard]

Self-preservation indeed...

I am certainly not advocating jumping in with guns blazing and I believe that I understand the situation as well as any citizen who is not actively involved. Another unwinnable war would indeed be a mistake. I have to believe that there are steps between doing essentially nothing and interfering to the point of military action. My issue is with this administration's response - if he's going to stay out then STAY OUT! No political maneuvering at the last possible minute just as everything is winding down to appease his critics and make himself look good.

If it was “wrong” enough for him to be “appalled” today then it was certainly “wrong” enough last week as people were being beaten and killed in the streets…

 

[Sean Bradley]

Yeah, I know... it's frustrating.

He really just made a statement because people were calling him out to do so, and now people are mad at him for not doing it on his own...

I don't think anybody is happy about what is happening in Iran. But I believe they're so militantly defensive about outside influence though that there little anyone can do. The United Nations will have to deal with this.

 

[Xtreme TACTICS 101]

Gosh, after watching the clip of Neda being shot, I was all misted up. Although I have seen things that some of you would be compleatly spazing out at, that one person being shot really got me thinking about life. Like, I have seen two 13 year-old kids being hit by a car right infront of me, and yet, this still effects me more...

I hope that the person who shot her gets in some deep $#!T for that. Even if Neda's father trackes him down, and kills him in his sleep, It will never destroy the lost love of his lost, beloved child.

And I quote Lord of the Rings:The Two Towers-"No parent should have to bury their child." And its true, no parent should EVER have to bury their child. I know people do it every day, but it should never happen.

 

[coldthunder]

My wife and I saw the vid.... It's hard to see something like that, and we have 4 daughters of our own. We see the world as it is. Nobody likes it.

 

[NZTK]

If anyone is actually interested in this, beyond what you get in 15 second clips on cnn or fox, there is a very good doumentary called "Iran is not the Problem" The film explains current Iran quite well. The important thing to remember about presidents there is, don't think of him as being like an American president, Iran doesn't work like that. The man in charge of Iran is the Ayatollah, it's him and the guardian council that decide who gets to "run" for president, so it really makes little difference to the people who wins, they never had a real choice anyway.

 

[DogWizard]

One of the real underlying issues with Iran (and much of the rest of the Middle East) is their unwillingness and utter inability to change and adapt over time. Basically, before the Renaissance the Middle East was top banana. While the rest of Europe was mired in the dark ages, the Middle East was THE center of learning for hundreds of years (excluding the Far East for the sake of this discussion). Science, philosophy, art – the whole deal. Much of what was lost to the rest of the world after the fall of the Roman Empire was preserved there.

Unfortunately, after the Renaissance (and partially due to the Crusades) the rest of the West just kept on rolling - rediscovering what had been lost and pushing beyond the old limits. The Middle East wouldn’t (and couldn’t) move fast enough to catch up. They became rigid in hopes of holding on to what they had. Instead of trying to join the rest of the modern world, they became angry and frustrated that we don't want to live in the 1400's with them. It didn’t work and here we are today. Technology has finally progressed to the point where it is no longer possible to stay isolated. The problem is that while the rest of the world changed incrementally over time, they stayed more-or-less still for the last 500 years and their growing pains are correspondingly more severe.

Now they are being forced to play catch-up over just a couple of generations. Those in power want to hold onto the status-quo. The younger generations want what the rest of the world takes for granted (or much of it anyway). The old ways will come to an end eventually, the only questions are when and how many people will die along the way…

 

[Master Chief 13]

As bad as the video was, some of you guys are forgetting people are killed everyday. Some for even less than protesting.

 

[DogWizard]

As bad as the video was, some of you guys are forgetting people are killed everyday. Some for even less than protesting.

Who's forgetting that? Anyone? More people are murdered in my city every year than were killed in these protests(probably - we may never know). That certainly doesn't make those people or their deaths any less meaningful or this issue unimportant. That's not the point - as terrible as this is it's bigger than any individual getting killed. If we were to drag up every single death or atrocity currently going on in the world there would be no time for anything else. This just happens to be a timely issue and hopefully one that can be discussed rationally and intelligently. It is also one that should ring true for anyone living in a free country - somewhere along the way people (and usually many) died so that we could enjoy that freedom...

 

[HaloFreakX]

This is there OWN problem. What CAN the US do? This is there "war."

 

[Xtreme TACTICS 101]

Well, thinking like that won't solve anything... No offence.

 

[NZTK]

This is there OWN problem. What CAN the US do? This is there "war."

You need to learn a bit of history I think. here's a quick run down for you

1951; The Prime Minister of Iran (democratically elected) decides to nationalize Irans oil, to stop the country's wealth being taken by the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (later became BP) This upsets lots of white people, who think they should own Irans oil.

Britain tried to take Iran to court over it, and lost. Naturally this upset Britain so, they team up with the US government and the newly formed CIA

1953; US overthrows Iranian democracy and installs a pro US dictator, Shah Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi
(The coup was carried out by the US administration of Dwight D. Eisenhower in a covert action advocated by Secretary of State John Foster Dulles under the supervision of his brother Allen Dulles, the Director of Central Intelligence.[16] The coup was organized by the United States' CIA and the United Kingdom's MI6, two spy agencies that aided royalists and mutinous Iranian army officers.)

for 25 years, the Shah of Iran rules with an iron fist, murdering anyone who questioned him.
Religious leaders decide that the Shah is un-islamic, Ayatollah Khomeini who doesn't like the Shah much gets put in prison for 2 years, then exiled for 14 years.
While he was in exile he made tapes of anti-Shah speeches, which were copied and distributed by the people of Iran.

1970; protests are common, lots of decent has been stirred up so the Shah declares marshal law and bans demonstrations. This leads to a protest where 2 million people marched in Tehran demanding the Shah be removed and the return of Ayatollah Khomeini

1979, Pro Ayatollah Khomeini students seize the US embassy building in Tehran, and hold 52 diplomats hostage for 444 days.

At this stage, the Shah was hiding in the US. The student revolutionaries demanded the Shah be returned to Iran for trial, The Shahs stolen money be returned to the people, The US would promise not to interfere again in Iran and, an apology from the US for their past actions.

So, 1979 (Iranian revolution) Ayatollah Khomeini has been in charge, then Iraq decides to invade Iran. This makes the US look very bad because, they are supplying Iraq with weapons technology, and helping with Iraqi bombing raids and, the whole time supplying weapons to Iran.

Enter the "Iran-Contra Scandal"
Reagan is fighting an illegal war in Nicaragua, and needs money to fund it but, congress says "No" SO, he comes up with a plan to sell arms to Iran, through South Africa and Israel, and uses the money to fund guerilla armies in Nicaragua (The US is later convicted by the world court for "Unlawful Use of Force", the US ignored the ruling)

1989 Ayatollah Khomeini dies and is replaced by the current guy.



Now, Think again about your statement. Who war is this? is it the Iranian peoples?


Now I just want to be very clear, what I've posted is not a political opinion, it is a brief historical over view of events that lead up to today. All the things I've stated are historical facts, not opinion so, please keep that in mind and don't go down the political argument road, it would be a shame to lock a thread that is good (especially for young Americans) to read.
Please keep responses as unbiased and factual as you can

 

[rube]

NZ-TK:

Don't forget the part about the Iran-Iraq war and whose side we were on.

 

[fjordman587]

I try not to be political, but from the way things have been going lately...

I have a BAD feeling about this.

First North Korea threatens to shoot missiles at us, now this?

Start watching the news and maybe start restocking that fallout shelter.
I think the doomsday clock is set at 11:59.

Fjordman587