On the battlefield of chess, how would the UNSC and Covenant starships match up?

[alix965]

When I play any game's multiplayer component, I subconsciously try and figure out if the sides are balanced. In a FPS like call of Call of Duty any particular weapon thats over-powered can usually be overcome with grenades...lots and lots of grenades.

But in a game like Halo thats not usually an issue, The Wraith tank's destructive power is balanced by it's rate of fire. The bullet hose known as the Assault Rifle is hampered by it's sucky accuaracy after a certain distance. But When it comes to the starships it seems that the Covenant have a distinct advantage. Is this true? I mean in the books UNSC personnel always complain about how the SPARTANs kick plenty A on the ground but it doesn't matter because the Covie fallback and glass any planet they can't take anyway.

Is this just the how it is? If so where does the disparity between Covie starships and UNSC begin?
Pelican= Spirit dropship?
Scorpion=Wraith??
Falcon=Banshee????
Spririt Of Fire= any Carrier Frigate???what??

Can anyone please place these ships and their counterparts on the chessboard,is that even do-able?
Thanks

 

[Kadus27]

Alright, I know this is really weird, but for some reason, the covenant seem to suck at ground warefare. Their ships are years and years beyond the unsc, but their ground vehicles and weaponry actually seems a little behind on the curve. I mean they should have gotten rid of overheating, and reloading with the needler? Really? So no, I don't think that you can put these things on a chess board. The covenant would pwn face.

 

[RadioactiveMicrobe]

The Covenant Ships are all around better. It's esimated that for every 3 human ships destroyed, 1 Covenant ship gets destroyed.

 

[ACDCrockr209]

In my opinion, it's all about stratedgy. Sure having a crap ton of ships is good, but if you know how to use them, it's even better. I play a ton of stratedgy games, and I manage to snatch a victory form overwhelming odds.

In book, "The Fall of Reach", UNSC ships sent volleys of MAC rounds at covenant ships. They were able to take out many ships before the Covenant finally closed the gap and shot down many UNSC ships.

-Pony

 

[tubachris85x]

Im curious to know what ships those are between the smaller covi cruiser and the Halcyon class ship

 

[alix965]

God, thats what I thought. The Covie ships have no counterpart in the human fleet. And I agree that tactics and superior strategy can save many a day but imagine being that damn outmatched each and every time by an enemy that takes no proisoners. That's gotta ruin your lunch right?

Three to one losses on our side sounds about right, I remember the orbital Battle for Reach, the ranking admiral had to use a repair ship to take the brunt of the Covenant opening salvo. If the If the elites hadn't defected, we would/aregonna be be history.

As far as those unnamed ships heres a link. The scale looks about right but I can't be sure. These are some 3d models to an in-progress Empire at War mod made by a sir/madam named Blamtroid. Truth is though I was thinking of making some chesspieces of the fleets, but trying to match three Black bishops to one Red, doesn't sound like much of a game. Thanks guys

 

[Trooper114]

The one next to the covie crusier is a Platform and should actually be standing vertically. To jog any ones memory, the Cairo station, Athens station and the Malta station from Halo 2. There part of earths orbital defense grid, as for the ship next to it, i am not sure. By the way, would it be appropriate to add in the Covie corvet and maybe High Charity?

 

[rvalera11]

**** man... now this is why i wouldn't want join the UNSC Navy 3 to 1 odds, god I'll need a new pair of pants for every naval engagement in space and in low orbit

 

[OptimusWang]

People are getting the three to one thing confused - humans generally lost way more than three of their ships to every one of the covenant. The number comes from when Admiral Cole took back Harvest; it was considered a massive victory because he *only* lost three ships for every one he killed... normally the UNSC fared much, much worse.

 

[Devious]

I personally ADORE the UNSC ships. They have a neat design and concept, the only reason they do badly is the covenant tech advantage. On a battlefield with other human ships they would have the upper hand.

 

[ACDCrockr209]

On a battlefield with other human ships they would have the upper hand.

Of course they would. Same reason The Elite Separatists took out all of the Covenant Loyalist ships during the battle above the Ark.

If you have two ships that have the same type or armament shooting each other(I.E Ballistic, plasma), then the victor will most likely be the one that has more on board and tougher skin, but if you have two ships that are made of different materials and vastly different weapon systems, then that means the victor will most likely be the one that has more distructive power and tougher armor while the other just makes tiny dings on the hull.

One great example is the small battle inside the shield world on Halo Wars. The Covenant Ship and the Spirit of Fire collided, but Covenant ship didn't sustain serious damage while the SoF lost many of those base lander things. The reason for this is that the covie ship was made of denser materials.

-Pony

 

[Devious]

One thing I find interesting are the parallels between space faring tech in battlestar galactica and halo. I always wonder what would happen if the BSG found earth being attacked by the covies.

 

[SchizophrenicMC]

Galactica, dare I say it, would be destroyed pretty quick, as would any Cylons (assuming there were Cylons). Considering the time it takes to run with an FTL burst, and the fairly weak defensive capabilities of the Battlestar, compared to a Covenant fleet... Even Home One's shields couldn't repel firepower of that magnitude.

Back to the note about Halo, I've noticed humans are incredibly better strategists. This is why they out-fight the Covenant on-ground. Their soldiers are essentially fighting sheer numbers with intelligence. Sure, the Covenant have better weaponry, and more numbers, but they use it to less effect than they could. That's why the difference can be made up. However, in space, the difference is so great, even human strategy can't beat Covenant technology. For every 3 or so of Cole's ships in the Second Battle of Harvest, only one Covenant ship was destroyed. More for the larger classes. Those were the best odds a human fleet ever had in the war. Sure, there were other ships that fought better, but that was one well-armed, well-planned ship against a very few Covenant ships in the right conditions. The Keyes Loop comes to mind.

Covenant ships are made of far denser materials, are far larger, faster, have more powerful weapons, and to top it off, energy shielding and precise Slipspace technology. Compared to the human ships, with their small fusion drives, and missiles, maybe a MAC, and only a meter of Titanium-A battleplate between them and the tons of superheated plasma that's directed at them, of course they'll win. So, no, there is no comparison. Chess doesn't work for this. (Unless you make one piece that looks like 3 ships, say a Halcyon, a Frigate, and a Destroyer, to combat a Covenant piece of the same class. I would suggest single ships for pawns, yes?)

 

[Devious]

The Galactica would have the same chance as any of the UNSC ships. Its firepower I would hazard to say is greater, as it relies on 24 dual conventional turrets, as opposed to one forward firing ultra heavy MAC cannon. Like the UNSC ships it employs a 514 Point defense machine guns, and 12 loaded nukes its armoring would be on par. The greatest advantage it possesses is the great number of fighters it can deploy with varying payloads. While the UNSC Ships have a small number of Longswords, and pelicans, the Battlestars can launch at least 80 highly agile versatile strike fighters, in addition to multi-role raptors.. The BSG is a Battle carrier, as opposed to the purpose built UNSC carriers. For all intents, it is more powerful then the average UNSC Cruiser.

 

[alix965]

. Chess doesn't work for this. (Unless you make one piece that looks like 3 ships, say a Halcyon, a Frigate, and a Destroyer, to combat a Covenant piece of the same class. I would suggest single ships for pawns, yes?)

Interesting. A piece that would represent a battlegroup. That is a new concept in chess, but visually it would balance the odds or at least capture the spirit of the battle.

This is a good idea.

And yes, human ingenuity and that spark of independence have a way of surpassing great hardships. Not to mention plain ol' Homo Sapien stubborness.

 

[adam4472]

the covenant launch boarding craft and take the ship before they come in range as in halo 2

 

[ACDCrockr209]

the covenant launch boarding craft and take the ship before they come in range as in halo 2

Not if the UNSC lanches longswords as well as shooting them down with missiles and their cannons.

-Pony

 

[SchizophrenicMC]

Really, Covenant single ships are no matter, as point-defense turrets are enough to take them out, as well as fighter squadrons and missiles.

I wanna note, the Galactica carries 80 Vipers, but those are small, single-man ships, with no shielding, and minimal weapons capacity. Even then, the Galactica is a carrier, anyway. It doesn't rely on single, heavy weapons, but its fighter contingent. The UNSC ships witnessed in the Halo games are Cruisers, Destroyers, and Frigates. These are ships that rely on their own combat capacity, and thus, have less cargo space to devote to single ships, replacing it with armor and the quintessential MAC cannon. Now, in Halo lore, Carriers have been mentioned, and it's assumed they carry large numbers of single ships, including various types we may not have seen before. Not just the Longsword heavy interceptor. (Its name implies its role as a fast-attack craft, not an all-around ship)

Carriers and Cruisers do not compare. One uses proxy to fight, one uses its own weapons. You can't trade one for the other, because they fulfill different roles. A UNSC cruiser could easily take out the Galactica, itself, but the fighter wing of a BS could likely overwhelm a cruiser, given the right weaponry.

It is my opinion, then, that given the structure and combat capabilities of a Battlestar, such as Galactica, it would still be an inadequate match for a Covenant vessel, of any type greater than Corvette, just as a UNSC vessel.

 

[Devious]

The viper is far more agile than a longsword, its weapons are the same as a saber, with two heavy machine guns, and missiles.

The Galactica is a combination between a Cruiser and a Carrier. Unlike a UNSC cruiser it can provide a consistent stream of reasonably heavy ordnance, whereas a cruiser has a MAC cannon, that while it does far superior damage, takes a very long time to reload. Relying on the missile pods to engage in the interim. The BSG is built to counter the missile dependent BaseStars, and has superior Point defense systems. To defeat a cruiser it would simply have to Engage from above or fire on its stern, the cruiser would have to turn to bring the MAC cannon to bear, as it is forward facing. The BSG cannons are mounted on turrets. If it were solely a carrier it would not have the heavy offensive armament that it carries, you don't see aircraft carriers with cannons on them, as they are not meant to engage the enemy directly. The BSG can and does exchange fire with enemy ships instead of leaving the vipers to do all the work.

It also has 12 ship to ship nuclear missile launch tubes, I would like to see a covenant cruiser stop all those.

Battlestars are Superships, they are carriers, Heavy weapons platforms, and extremely self sufficient, with ordnance manufacturing facilities. They are built for tactics not used by the UNSC or Covenant, this gives them a significant advantage as they can adapt but the others can't, due to lack of fighters and serious point defense.

 

[GunGryphon]

While everyone is getting off on the Galactica Tangent, what would happen if the ships from Halo and Starcraft 2 were to battle? say like the Protoss carriers Vs Covenant capital ships, or battlecruisers vs frigates. Heck, throw in swarms of zerg corruptors and this would be a crazy fight.
Here is some information on each of these units. (click the links for more information on each unit.)

Terran:
Battle Cruiser
These ships are highly armored and wield large ammounts of laser batteries and a Yamato Cannon. They also serve as operation centers for Terran Commanders.
The size of these things are disputable, however the most likly size is about 1Km, but esitmates range from 800m to 3Km. To me these estimates are a bit small when compared to the SC2 cinimatics.
Viking
Terran Air Superiority fighter, these are armed with anti-capital missiles and can transform into combat walkers.
Wraith
Although ther are more costly and have less firepower than vikings, these ships are faster and feature a cloaking field.

Protoss:
Mother Ship
These behemoths used to be the core of Protoss fleets, however they are few in number nowadays. They have the ability to distort the fabric of reality, by creating a vortex that temporarily phases enemies out of existance, or recalling massive armies to its location. It also applies a cloaking field to any nearby friendly units.
Carrier
These ships serve as the backbone of protoss fleets. Each carrier holds 8 interceptors.
Void Ray
These anti-capital ships wield a prismatic beam that does more damage the longer it's firing. A fully charged void ray can rip apart almost any unit.
Pheoenix
The protoss fighter that specializes in taking out lighter targets.

Zerg:
Leviathan
This unit is the largest zerg air unit that ever spawned. It shoots out massive tenticals and can spawn broodlords and mutalisks.
Corruptor
These anti-capital fliers are heavily armored and are designed to take out battle cruisers and carriers. They also can spew acid on enemy units that reduce their armor.
Mutalisk
These are light-weight hit-and-run fliers that are extremely dangerous in mass numbers. They shoot acid spores and could be similar in size to a banshee.

These omit any ground-attack only fliers.
Anouther thing is that the proportions for ships dosnt translate very well on the SC2 battle field. For isntance the size of a battle cruiser is measured in miles while its only 6 marines long ingame.
Let the theroetical battles begin.
-Gryphon