Possible New Material For Pepakura Construction

Holy Sp4rt4n

New Member
I was looking around for some possible alternatives to the strong chemicals that are used in construction of pepakura, and I found something. If you soak muslin cloth (a high density cotton fabric) in a half water, half glue solution, you get a highly moldable, very strong cloth that when it dries, is near unbreakable. I made a 4 inch cube of the stuff in about 10 minutes and let it dry. My brother can stand on it without it breaking or compressing, and he weighs about 130. Just a thought as a cheap filler or sub for something else...
 

drgon47

Well-Known Member
Might be interesting to try it out for the chest piece maybe. And then set it against something and take a paintball gun to it :D
 

herogear

Jr Member
Muslin is extremely cheap, usualy around $1.50 a yard, but you can find it on sale often for less than a buck at most sewing/fabric stores. We use to do a similar trick for making knight's armor back in my theater days, by soaking felt in a white glue/water mix... Muslin over felt gives a very solid, smooth finished piece. You can use white glue mixed with flour as a finish coating to make it super smooth. Then just paint & seal as normal... A very old-school, non toxic way to make armor... :) Not to mention extremely cheaper than glass & resin.

Wolf


pafford09 said:
yeah and pricing
 
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Ultima

Jr Member
herogear said:
Muslin is extremely cheap, usualy around $1.50 a yard, but you can find it on sale often for less than a buck at most sewing/fabric stores. We use to do a similar trick for making knight's armor back in my theater days, by soaking felt in a white glue/water mix... Muslin over felt gives a very solid, smooth finished piece. You can use white glue mixed with flour as a finish coating to make it super smooth. Then just paint & seal as normal... A very old-school, non toxic way to make armor... :) Not to mention extremely cheaper than glass & resin.

Wolf
I wish I new about this before I used the stupid Plastar... Ill have to try this, since it sounds like it works simple and quickly.
 
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herogear

Jr Member
Like anything, getting good results takes patience & practice... This is a great & fairly easy method, but it's not as quick as some other materials... As it's water-based, it takes a while to dry... If you're in a hotter climate, it'll definately go quicker than those of us up north... ;) Have a spaceheater or hair-dryer handly wneh working to speed things along.

We use to have a great material called celastic, it was a plastic impregnated muslin, that you soaked in acetone then shaped as you wanted... Since it was solvent-based, it dried very quickly. It was the mainstay for theater armor makers for many years, untill it was deamed to 'toxic' for us mere mortals to play with... What's funny is my hands are still immersed in acetone on a daily basis... lol ;)

Wolf



Ultima said:
I wish I new about this before I used the stupid Plastar... Ill have to try this, since it sounds like it works simple and quickly.
 
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flying squirl

Well-Known Member
hey, i used this for a st. Patric's days costume. totally forgot you could use it for something like this. that using the muslin to smooth it is a brilliant idea, i had serious trouble trying to smooth it out considering its slightly flexible and tends to go hairy instead of getting sanded. (damn glue soaked cloth). :cautious:

oh bdw, Ultima, how on earth did you use plaster? didn't it just soak the paper and make it colapse?

bdw, herogear, did you do model/prop making in collage if so where?
 

feigned echo

Jr Member
just a few things
1. is it easier to use than fiberglass?
2. what kind of glue did you use?
3. is it stronger than fiberglass?
thank you for your patience, i've been looking to build my first helmet and i want it to be perfect.
 

Holy Sp4rt4n

New Member
Echo

1. Difficulty is in the hands of the holder ;) It is definetly more simple to use than fiberglass, but to someone like Adam, Sean, Link and the others, this would probably seem like a newbish trick. I have worked with fiber glass when in my friend's repair shop, but it is very time consuming (but then so is anything good/worth doing) but for most people inexperienced in either, I imagine the muslin cloth is MUCH easier.

2. For testing purposes, I used regular Elmers Glue (not school glue) but when I begin I may move up to their higher up types of glue, i.e. Elmers Craft Bond Tacky Glue. More expensive than the normal, but more effective. You can also use another type of glue, and if you know of something that would work well, please post it here. I think Elmers works the best though.

3. Seeing as how there are more cars made out off fiberglass than muslin, I would have to say no. Thats not to say its not as good though, for this use anyway, and its way cheaper. And for something like the belt, where you want to be able to sit on the back piece, its invaluable. I read someone here said that you have to make like 15 layers of fiberglass on the belt to do this, but if a small block can hold more than 130 pounds, I think a few layers of this would be easier and better.


On another note, I brought the block to school and found someone who could break it. Hes on the football team, and he ways 200+. (y) Granted he was the third one to stand on it, but he held on for about 10 seconds before it just crushed. One victory for muslin, especially as how it was my first try.


Stealthkiller24 "First i would shoot it with an air soft gun but a paint ball gun sounds fun"
DONT SHOOT!!!!
 

Dracc

New Member
The block has the advantage of a strong geometric shape. In the example of the cube, the vertical walls are supporting all of the weight, so they can in fact support a surprising load. As for armor peices, even with many layers of hardened moslin, the convex shape might not be as sturdy. For example, you can stand on an empty popcan if it is standing upright, but it collapses if you attempt the same on its side. Same material, same thickness, but differnt load bearing properties. It should hold up to normal wear, but perhaps not sitting.
 

feigned echo

Jr Member
this may sound dumb, but i really want to go skiing with this armor on, so two things, which would be better for protecting my head, and which would be likely to survive a fall? i'm sure i will fall being that the helmet will probably obstruct my view(please correct me on this if i'm wrong). and will a fan in the helmet prevent the visor from fogging? thanks.
 

Holy Sp4rt4n

New Member
I am aware of this Dracc, but I am merely trying to demonstrating the fact that this material is in fact quite strong for its weight, I have no guarentees of its strength in a shape that is not as geometrically strong, but if it can sustain that much pressure, I would bet it could support a good deal of weight if you use the right glue. My next project will be a small 6 inch diameter sphere, and I will find a circus clown to test it out. :lol: The thought of being able to sit with it could still work if you make, say a rectangle, then add the sides of the belt as well as the descending bracket. I bet if one of the more experienced members tryed something, they could make a masterpiece. I am new to this idea though so I don't know what shapes work for the armor, and which don't. However, thank you for the reminder. :not worthy:

Echo, if I were you, and I wanted to go skiing, I would buy skiing clothes. Just as this armor is not bulletproof, its not very safe to attempt something as potentially dangerous as skiing with it. Not only will you be setting yourself up to possibly injure yourself, you will destroy your armor. I would hate to see something you put so much effort into get all busted and soggy as wet pepakura often does. That being said, the fan (pointed inward at you inside the helmet I assume) could possibly get you very sick if it makes you to cold and your face is wet. I have had pneumonia, its horrible, and ironically, I got it while skiing in the Catskills over winter vacation last year.

Oh, and your not dumb, you just need to read a little more of the tuts.
 

feigned echo

Jr Member
Holy Sp4rt4n said:
I am aware of this Dracc, but I am merely trying to demonstrating the fact that this material is in fact quite strong for its weight, I have no guarentees of its strength in a shape that is not as geometrically strong, but if it can sustain that much pressure, I would bet it could support a good deal of weight if you use the right glue. My next project will be a small 6 inch diameter sphere, and I will find a circus clown to test it out. :lol: The thought of being able to sit with it could still work if you make, say a rectangle, then add the sides of the belt as well as the descending bracket. I bet if one of the more experienced members tryed something, they could make a masterpiece. I am new to this idea though so I don't know what shapes work for the armor, and which don't. However, thank you for the reminder. :not worthy:

Echo, if I were you, and I wanted to go skiing, I would buy skiing clothes. Just as this armor is not bulletproof, its not very safe to attempt something as potentially dangerous as skiing with it. Not only will you be setting yourself up to possibly injure yourself, you will destroy your armor. I would hate to see something you put so much effort into get all busted and soggy as wet pepakura often does. That being said, the fan (pointed inward at you inside the helmet I assume) could possibly get you very sick if it makes you to cold and your face is wet. I have had pneumonia, its horrible, and ironically, I got it while skiing in the Catskills over winter vacation last year.

Oh, and your not dumb, you just need to read a little more of the tuts.
no, no, i'm not talking at all about going in full suit, just the helmet, besides i don't have enough patience to build a full suit.
so what do you thing about the structural integrity of the muslin, and of the fiberglass, which should i use?

edit: i'm thinking i'll go with fiberglass, it seems to be the favorite around here.
 
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Holy Sp4rt4n

New Member
If you have the time (not so much money, cept visor) then by all means, go with the fiber glass. My alternative is for people who dont want chemicals, need a cheap filler, or just want an inexpensive suit. I stand by my thing about pnumonia though. And I still think pro ski gear is your best choice.

Maybe get a real ski helm and build over it, like the guy here with the baseball helm.
 

joshua61991

Jr Member
make another cuber but without a top and bottom. then give the inside of the cube a cardboard construction (wavy stuff in the middle of two flat pieces) we did this in seventh grade, one piece of paper and one palm full of elmers. The person who did it that way, theirs held 260 lbs. Now imagine what that muslin would be able to hold in that contruction form. I say over 350.
 

mark

Jr Member
well this stuff could be used when done with the fiberglass part as glass tends to stink so i guess covering up the glass oas the last layer will be smother looking on the inside as well as a no smell helmet

and could you use this stuff in replacement of body filler for detailing?
 

Holy Sp4rt4n

New Member
I'm not sure how the body filler is used, but if it is just adding thickness, strength, or minute details, i bet it would work.

For easy detailing, you're probably best off with Mac's thread/idea.
 

fusion

New Member
i was thinking for this you could probably use it for the under armor and die it black i mean you think you could mold it to your body and have it in segments and sew in regular cloth at the joints so u could move and I think it would look way cooler.
 
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