metalsplinter2
Member
What about the marines from Halo 1? Bdu, tactical vest, and combat boots?
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Entry-Level Costumes
- Thread starter Vrogy
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DogWizard
Well-Known Member
I think that part of the issue with these types of costumes is that cosplay (and make no mistake, that's what we are doing) is predicated on sustaining the illusion that you really belong and are recognizable as the character you've choosen to portray. If the extent of the costume is just standard modern-day BDU's with combat boots and a paintball tac-vest, are you really making the statement that you are from the Haloverse? You could just as easily be from any one of two dozen military-based FPS games (or anime, or whatever)...
Mjolnir Armor - more or less instantly recognizable to any gamer (and many non-gamers)
ODST in full armor - a little less so but still fairly easy to pick up on. If nothing else, the full kit says "cool future warrior"
BDUs and combat boots - ehhhh, unless you are surrounded by Spartans, chances are that no-one will have any idea what character you are trying to portray...
I don't know what the solution will be - I know that there does need to be an accurate, professional looking alternative for those enthusiasts who really want to participate but don't have a couple grand sitting around to jump in with both feet. If I had to guess, this will be laid out in the charter with very specific requirements. Who knows - maybe some of the ODST armor being worked on now will be a little more affordable. All it would take to start would be the helmet and body to make all the difference. Then just add the rest as funds (or creativity and time) allow.
I have great faith that a solution will be found...
Mjolnir Armor - more or less instantly recognizable to any gamer (and many non-gamers)
ODST in full armor - a little less so but still fairly easy to pick up on. If nothing else, the full kit says "cool future warrior"
BDUs and combat boots - ehhhh, unless you are surrounded by Spartans, chances are that no-one will have any idea what character you are trying to portray...
I don't know what the solution will be - I know that there does need to be an accurate, professional looking alternative for those enthusiasts who really want to participate but don't have a couple grand sitting around to jump in with both feet. If I had to guess, this will be laid out in the charter with very specific requirements. Who knows - maybe some of the ODST armor being worked on now will be a little more affordable. All it would take to start would be the helmet and body to make all the difference. Then just add the rest as funds (or creativity and time) allow.
I have great faith that a solution will be found...
metalsplinter2
Member
ya that's true my true ideal was to have a bunch of marines and Spartans to lead them. I would say the assault rifle would been the major signature were we are from. Everyone knows about the AR from halo no matter what age group as long as they played or seen the halo game 
Vrogy said:
...no I got the jest of this thread...it is just my opinion that the Armored Marines and ODST would be very difficult to make on such a low budget...if you can do it great!!!...otherwise I sense that we may see mediocre costumes...
...again just my opinion
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Assassin716
Member
Entry level costume, so like is this a costume that you would initially receive after joining the 405th, if so i think doing something like a real military would be good, you are issued tags, boots, helmet, fatigues, and a weapons, and if at all possible if we have cheap vacuum-formed armor i say why not throw that in too, we just need basics, cause die hard Halo fans will know who we are if they spot the UNSC Eagle, some others might not, and if not we still have the Spartans to guard.
We have a saying here in New Zealand "Tough Titties"
There is no cheap way to get a quality costume. Quality costumes cost thousands of dollars and take teams of talented artists, a long time to make, hence films having production budgets in the hundreds of millions. If people are really keen to get involved but cant afford it, they can always be handlers. If you cant afford this hobby, you can always just try to buy your suit bit by bit, or slowly chip away at your own, it may take you a couple of years but, if you have the drive and talent eventually you'll get there otherwise you're interest will fade, and you'll be more into some other franchise or hobby, this fact will be the 405th's greatest defense against mediocrity.
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If you look at any hobby what you put into it is an investment both personally and financially, you don’t hastily squander you’re time and money on something you won’t ultimately be proud of whether it’s you’re first attempt or you’re third revision.
I’ve been in the costuming/ prop hobby for about four years now which considering is relatively new in comparison to my peers, two things I learned very early on was that you get what you pay for and that the level of commitment you put into getting the end result matters.
With what you’re approximating for those two very complex and intricate outfits might be cost effective but not up to par with what people should ideally be shooting for.
I’ve been in the costuming/ prop hobby for about four years now which considering is relatively new in comparison to my peers, two things I learned very early on was that you get what you pay for and that the level of commitment you put into getting the end result matters.
With what you’re approximating for those two very complex and intricate outfits might be cost effective but not up to par with what people should ideally be shooting for.
Primal Weyland
Well-Known Member
Since my original post was deleted by a Nazi moderator with über post-deleting powers, I'll repeat for the emphasis here.
Moulded armor = circlejerk.
I'm really, really sorry to say it, but as good as the quality of moulded armor is, I'll always look upon it as an elitist hobby. Something only people with an expendable income or amount of free time can really ever completely accomplish.
Yes, ANY armor is going to be expensive to craft to a high quality, moulded or not. But what I don't get is why the moulders here have to stick their noses up in the air and sniff at some of the efforts of people and basically imply that they'll never have good armor unless they do it your way. It makes people like me even more determined to put together a piece that blows any of yours out of the water, then see your faces drop when I reveal it's all made from Pepakura and fibreglass, and it took less time than any of your pieces.
I understand that armor is going to take a lot of time, effort and money. I understand that everyone here wants a high-quality armor display.
But saying 'hey, you can't wear that because it's not as good as mine' is just the adult way of saying 'I'm better than you because I have a huge wad of mommy and daddy's cash to blow, so I spent it all on a fancy CNC router and fed some models into it/spent it all on making a mould for my armor/delete as approporiate'. And to be perfectly honest, people... I didn't join the 405th to be told that I won't be good enough until I've jumped a load of hoops.
Yes, you can make good armor if you have the patience to do so. Yes, you could spend a few years doing armor, and then come out of it proud. And yes, quality armor will, as a whole, improve the standard of the 405th. But we're not a studio, and none of us here have millions to blow on intricate armor sets. Hell, my bank account has never seen four digits into the black (let alone currently being four digits in the RED) in its entire existence - if you told me that armor was going to cost me that much, I'd lay out a calendar for 2012 and say 'fine, we'll be done by about March'.
If you want to alienate a lot of people by saying 'hey, tough ****, you either spend shedloads of money and stupid amounts of time on your armor, or get lost', then by all means. When that Charter gets running, I surely hope there's a compromise between quality and cost, otherwise you'll see your numbers drop to possibly double figures possibly in the low 20s.
Long and short: If you people want to make moulded armor, by all means. But don't wave it in my face and tell me I have to have the armor equivalent of a Porche to be in the club, or by hell I'll be off to start the armor equivalent of the Lada Appreciation Society.
Moulded armor = circlejerk.
I'm really, really sorry to say it, but as good as the quality of moulded armor is, I'll always look upon it as an elitist hobby. Something only people with an expendable income or amount of free time can really ever completely accomplish.
Yes, ANY armor is going to be expensive to craft to a high quality, moulded or not. But what I don't get is why the moulders here have to stick their noses up in the air and sniff at some of the efforts of people and basically imply that they'll never have good armor unless they do it your way. It makes people like me even more determined to put together a piece that blows any of yours out of the water, then see your faces drop when I reveal it's all made from Pepakura and fibreglass, and it took less time than any of your pieces.
I understand that armor is going to take a lot of time, effort and money. I understand that everyone here wants a high-quality armor display.
But saying 'hey, you can't wear that because it's not as good as mine' is just the adult way of saying 'I'm better than you because I have a huge wad of mommy and daddy's cash to blow, so I spent it all on a fancy CNC router and fed some models into it/spent it all on making a mould for my armor/delete as approporiate'. And to be perfectly honest, people... I didn't join the 405th to be told that I won't be good enough until I've jumped a load of hoops.
Yes, you can make good armor if you have the patience to do so. Yes, you could spend a few years doing armor, and then come out of it proud. And yes, quality armor will, as a whole, improve the standard of the 405th. But we're not a studio, and none of us here have millions to blow on intricate armor sets. Hell, my bank account has never seen four digits into the black (let alone currently being four digits in the RED) in its entire existence - if you told me that armor was going to cost me that much, I'd lay out a calendar for 2012 and say 'fine, we'll be done by about March'.
If you want to alienate a lot of people by saying 'hey, tough ****, you either spend shedloads of money and stupid amounts of time on your armor, or get lost', then by all means. When that Charter gets running, I surely hope there's a compromise between quality and cost, otherwise you'll see your numbers drop to possibly double figures possibly in the low 20s.
Long and short: If you people want to make moulded armor, by all means. But don't wave it in my face and tell me I have to have the armor equivalent of a Porche to be in the club, or by hell I'll be off to start the armor equivalent of the Lada Appreciation Society.
Basically what we've discussed is that the armor needs to look good. We don't really give a damn how it's done. It just needs to look good. However that is accomplished is up to the maker. We've also discussed informal vs. formal events. For informal events like a con, nobody needs to be a costume Nazi. But if we're doing something for Microsoft or Bungie, would you let people show up with unsmoothed angular pep? EDIT: Just using that as an example because it's the most common example.
Primal Weyland
Well-Known Member
Understood. Fingers weren't being pointed.
Walter Spase
Well-Known Member
Lol... well...
Armor has to be quality at some point. There needs to be a standard. Regardless of what it is, there will be one.... no formal discussion of who's in who's out based upon armor quality has really 100% been discussed anyway... nothing in the charter states quality requirements...
I feel like everyone just gets heated and wastes a lot of breath because of the few forum members that say something "isn't fair" that we (moderators) decided in the charter, that hasn't in fact even been decided, and now all of the sudden people are upset.
Get upset about whats been posted... not whats speculated.
And I am not sure there are any uber-Nazi moderators... They all seem to be level headed people to me, and I will point fingers at all of them and say that. But I do enjoy the colorful euphemisms that people often use in the description of those who they feel are infringing upon their liberty to do as they please.
Go make armor people... thats why you came here anyway.
Armor has to be quality at some point. There needs to be a standard. Regardless of what it is, there will be one.... no formal discussion of who's in who's out based upon armor quality has really 100% been discussed anyway... nothing in the charter states quality requirements...
I feel like everyone just gets heated and wastes a lot of breath because of the few forum members that say something "isn't fair" that we (moderators) decided in the charter, that hasn't in fact even been decided, and now all of the sudden people are upset.
Get upset about whats been posted... not whats speculated.
And I am not sure there are any uber-Nazi moderators... They all seem to be level headed people to me, and I will point fingers at all of them and say that. But I do enjoy the colorful euphemisms that people often use in the description of those who they feel are infringing upon their liberty to do as they please.
Go make armor people... thats why you came here anyway.
DogWizard
Well-Known Member
NZ-TK said:
We have a saying here in the States too - "Live and let live"
While I understand and completely support a target of the highest rational standards for costuming, I also live in the real world. Let's count up the number of active people sporting "absolute top-quality film production type full costumes". I have not seen one costume here - ever - that could not be improved upon in some way, shape or form (including mine). Are some of them spectacular - yes. Absolutely perfect? - no. There will always be compromise, give and take, and some level of imperfection accepted (find me one person with a screen accurate undersuit).Will some be more "perfect" than others? Absolutely! What we need (and I'm sure will be created by the powers that be) is a set of sane, real-world guidelines. In conjunction with something along the lines of a review board made up of several rational people trusted and respected to make a decision.
It would be a real shame if anyone who wants to play this little game has to spend "thousands of dollars" just to get in the door or be relegated to "handler". I'm not sure how much fun the 405th would be with only the 10-15 active people scattered around the globe who come closest to fitting your definition of acceptable. As an aside, I am fortunate enough to be able to afford this hobby (and several others, none of which is anything even remotely approaching inexpensive) but I know that there are some who can't. If you read my entire post, you can see that I am making the case for higher standards, not lower. The fact remains, however, that there will always be some compromise available and required - it just needs to be decided what that will be...
As Spase said (and it has been said before many times by many people) it will be the end result and overall professional appearance which will be judged, not how it was made, how much it cost, or who it was purchased from. My suggestion is that we all just keep coming up with ideas and wait until the master plan is revealed - no sense getting spun up about something that hasn't happened yet...
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I hear what you're saying but, I wont apologise for my standards. Is it a shame if some people have to miss out? Certainly, I'd really like to own an Aston Martin DB9 but I cant afford it. I know If I really really wanted one I'd do the work to get it though. This hobby is not for everyone. My advice to younger members or those that are less financially robust is, don't spent all your money on armour. Save it for a deposit on a house. When you have assets banks like you. They let you do all sorts of whacky stuff like start businesses and borrow money for holidays/armour. The only reason the 501st is tolerated is because our costumes are better than what Lucas ltd can provide, and they know it. If it weren't for strict quality control the 501st would be nowhere near what it is today.
Primal Weyland
Well-Known Member
And if the 501st didn't start out with crappy costumes and people who were willing to make them better, they wouldn't HAVE what they have now.
Face it, people - we're all still trying to outdo the 501st and run before we can walk.
"Hey, we need perfect costumes!"
Yeah, not everyone can afford them.
"Well, screw them then! Perfection or GTFO!"
Fine, you just alienated a good 70% of your fanbase.
"But 501st is perfect, look where it got them!"
Yeah, they've also been around longer than us.
"And people have to spend money to get quality!"
True, but people also live in the real world, where we don't have sucking money to DO this. My sucking money is for rent and food.
"Then you won't have perfect armor omg!"
Yeah, but I'll be all the happier knowing I'm not an elitist jerk who sat there bouncing off over his perfectly sculpted armor.
Sorry if it steps on people's toes, but it has to be said. You're all so stuck up the arse of 'OMFG WE NEED QUALITY NAOW!" that you fail to see that we're just not ready to make such a leap. Like I said a while back, we're not the 501st. The 501st is what it is from time and through people who made crappy armor, but wouldn't give up and made GOOD armor from PRACTISE. Saying people can't be a part of your group because they don't fit your criteria is just another form of prejudice, and it's an extremely insulting one to boot. Especially since everyone here is willing to jump from 'new kid on the block' to 'let's emulate the 501st' without taking into account the fact that if you do that, a lot of your dedicated fanbase is going to say 'screw that, there's no way we can keep up' and you'll go from a guy in sweet armor and a dedicated fanbase to one of about ten or twenty guys and girls sitting around in a circle bouncing each other off because you have this sort of stuff.
My point is this: there's a progression to all things, kinda like in life. Yeah, I want good armor. Yeah, I want to see people try the best they can in making theirs. but if you shut those people out or exclude them because they're not as good as you, you'll drive a lot of people away and give yourself the reputation of being an elitist prick rather than a mamber of a close-knit, welcoming community.
Face it, people - we're all still trying to outdo the 501st and run before we can walk.
"Hey, we need perfect costumes!"
Yeah, not everyone can afford them.
"Well, screw them then! Perfection or GTFO!"
Fine, you just alienated a good 70% of your fanbase.
"But 501st is perfect, look where it got them!"
Yeah, they've also been around longer than us.
"And people have to spend money to get quality!"
True, but people also live in the real world, where we don't have sucking money to DO this. My sucking money is for rent and food.
"Then you won't have perfect armor omg!"
Yeah, but I'll be all the happier knowing I'm not an elitist jerk who sat there bouncing off over his perfectly sculpted armor.
Sorry if it steps on people's toes, but it has to be said. You're all so stuck up the arse of 'OMFG WE NEED QUALITY NAOW!" that you fail to see that we're just not ready to make such a leap. Like I said a while back, we're not the 501st. The 501st is what it is from time and through people who made crappy armor, but wouldn't give up and made GOOD armor from PRACTISE. Saying people can't be a part of your group because they don't fit your criteria is just another form of prejudice, and it's an extremely insulting one to boot. Especially since everyone here is willing to jump from 'new kid on the block' to 'let's emulate the 501st' without taking into account the fact that if you do that, a lot of your dedicated fanbase is going to say 'screw that, there's no way we can keep up' and you'll go from a guy in sweet armor and a dedicated fanbase to one of about ten or twenty guys and girls sitting around in a circle bouncing each other off because you have this sort of stuff.
My point is this: there's a progression to all things, kinda like in life. Yeah, I want good armor. Yeah, I want to see people try the best they can in making theirs. but if you shut those people out or exclude them because they're not as good as you, you'll drive a lot of people away and give yourself the reputation of being an elitist prick rather than a mamber of a close-knit, welcoming community.
Vrogy
Well-Known Member
Holy crap, calm down, folks.
Standards haven't been announced yet. What's there to argue about?
Even if there are standards, I'm sure that there will be opportunities for 'substandard' costumes to go out and play- informal events, armoring get-togethers, etc.
In any case, standards don't have to be a black & white thing, some of the schemes I've heard of are pretty neat- one was a point system where certain levels of detail in areas earn points, and incorrect shapes or inaccurate paint, etc detract points. In that kind of system, improvements on armor over time which let the wearer gain access to more and more events are encouraged.
But back to my main point- Standards haven't been announced yet. Argue about them when they have.
So, howsabout those entry-level costumes? What do you think a good maximum price for one would be?
Standards haven't been announced yet. What's there to argue about?
Even if there are standards, I'm sure that there will be opportunities for 'substandard' costumes to go out and play- informal events, armoring get-togethers, etc.
In any case, standards don't have to be a black & white thing, some of the schemes I've heard of are pretty neat- one was a point system where certain levels of detail in areas earn points, and incorrect shapes or inaccurate paint, etc detract points. In that kind of system, improvements on armor over time which let the wearer gain access to more and more events are encouraged.
But back to my main point- Standards haven't been announced yet. Argue about them when they have.
So, howsabout those entry-level costumes? What do you think a good maximum price for one would be?
Vrogy
Well-Known Member
NZ-TK said:
Actually, let's look to other costuming clubs- what's the basic cost of putting together a standard 501st-legal stormtrooper?
I seem to remember armor kits being around 600$- what's the total cost, though, all the strapping, undersuit, etc?
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You can do a cheap stormtrooper for about 1000, that wont include your gun though.
I worked out my marine estimate based off an imaginary vac formed armour kit, including helmet for around 300 to 400, and the rest on your gun and soft parts, boots etc.
I worked out my marine estimate based off an imaginary vac formed armour kit, including helmet for around 300 to 400, and the rest on your gun and soft parts, boots etc.
That's actually not true. 501st has always had pretty high standards, If your costume isn't up to code, you don't get entry. Why else do you think we all look the same? The vast majority of the 501st DONT make armour, they buy it. The end result is a uniform, professional looking club that gets taken seriously as a promotional and charity tool.
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