Entry-Level Costumes

[Vrogy]

@Adam: the Wii seems to be doing pretty well, and it's only 250$-it just uses innovation to entertain. I think what's needed is a shift from the old ways of hand-shaping and molding to new ways of utilizing technology to do our work for us. I'm talking about CNC. I know, It hasn't been done cheaply yet, but.. I'm working on it.
Something else which would help speed the growth of our group is if people would allow recasting of parts, with credit to the original sculptor or modeler. Right now, though, CNC is thought of as too expensive, and recasting is the darkest sin..

@CMANavy: I wasn't imagining a kit that would be made available by the 405th- I was thinking rather of something you could get via the forums, pretty much as things are now, just a little more organized within itself.

 

[NZTK]

Something else which would help speed the growth of our group is if people would allow recasting of parts

All that would do is blow the club to bits.

 

[Adam]

growth of our group is if people would allow recasting of parts, with credit to

if by credit to, you mean a large sum of cash, maybe....


if not no freaking way... maybe if we sold approved re-casters.....maybe if people went in on groups for projects and then.... if..



heh, I've been thinking about this, but do not say "allow recasting" that is not a good idea. Let someone put in 400 hours of work, and someone else put in 2 hours and get the same thing? not happening.

 

[Vrogy]

All that would do is blow the club to bits.

This rationale I want to hear..

I know many people hate recasting, but I think in a situation where the original sculptor allowed recasting with credit to them, there wouldn't be nearly as big of a problem. For one- they're not trying to make a profit anyways... right? If you eliminate profit as a motive, you have.. ego. If credit is assured, that's satisfied, too. NZ-TK's EVA helm will always be NZ-TK's EVA helm, no matter if recast or not. Am I missing something?

 

[Adam]

this thread is not going to end well at all...

Have you created a prop, do you understand what goes into it? And you want to give it away?

 

[NZTK]

I think you just don't understand Vrogy. To put it politely, If I found someone recasting my EVA, Id beat him to death with the master. Recasting happens and its horrible. It stops people from selling things at all, which of course means NO quality gear for people without the time or skill to make their own. Recasting=No. People don't make large sums of cash from helmet kits, they are time consuming and expensive to produce. Any money made generally gets reinvested in the next project. If you let someone recast it how are you going to fund the next one? You have no control over who gets to buy your work. If the 405th became "recast friendly" I think you'd quickly find all the armorers and prop builders would vanish.

 

[Renga]

Recasting is the cardinal sin in the prop/costuming community, virtually every board has there own set guidelines and definition for this but the generally consensus is under no circumstance does an individual manufacture or use a copy of someone else's work because you're not only ripping off the person you're violating the whole principle of why people put as much hard work and time into a project only to have someone take their intellectual property and misuse it for profit or personal gain.

It’s artistic plagiarism at its worse and anyone who’s ever been on the receiving end of it will tell you no good comes from it.

 

[Vrogy]

this thread is not going to end well at all...

Have you created a prop, do you understand what goes into it? And you want to give it away?

It may and it may not. Who knows, maybe we'll *all* learn something.

I've spent lots of time on things I've 'given away'.
http://flickr.com/photos/vrogy/ 3000 photos.
Anyone can use them, as long as I get credit.
http://vrogy.net/category/models/ Several high-detail weapon models, and schematics.
Anyone can use them, as long as I get credit.
http://halocostuming.wikia.com/wiki/Specia...ributions/Vrogy
Here's work that I really have given away- but my name will be on this page for a long time.
Before Halo costuming I built combat robots. On an old site the Solidworks designs for them were always freely available- along with a library of commonly-used parts for other Solidworks designers to make use of.

So yes, I understand putting hard work into something and 'giving it away'.

Let's talk about Creative Commons: the Attribution, No Derivatives flavor. Basically, people can recast your work, but they can't modify it, and they must give you credit. You get the recognition for doing it, and your work is easily available at low cost.
Basically, you'll attract more people as it's easier to obtain armor through multiple sellers, thus improving the entire marketplace. The downside is.. you have competition. The upside is that stagnation doesn't occur- it's immediate sink or swim.
Also, if altruism doesn't factor into the work you do, if you don't like the idea of your work being work by dozens upon dozens, of your name being synonymous with high-quality armor.. what's wrong with you?

Interestingly enough, copyright was once close to creative commons- it sped up the cycle of stagnation and limited the rights entitled to copyright holders to a certain time period. Recently, it's been indefinitely extended, which breaks the system, and you now have rampant media & software piracy.

 

[NZTK]

One thing I have absolutely no problem with, is people using my digital work as a base to make their own helmets to mould and sell as they see fit. I hope that in the years to come, there will be quality perm kits available (scouts rouges odst's etc) that I can say I had a small part in creating. The legendary ODST project is something I'm really proud to have been involved in. And there is another project going at the moment which, when announced, should have a lot of you guys jumping for joy. It would be a great feeling to see a group photo of 100 or so Spartans odst's and marines at a con, and be able to say "I helped bring that club to life" I regularly give away low poly digital sculpts, and do detailed commissioned work for cheap or trade, in what I think is a way I can use what skills I have, to help further the group, so please don t give me this "altruism" business. Will I extend that philosophy to allow people to straight recast my real world sculptures? Never. They are mine, I own them, I will not give away hundreds hours of sanding and sculpting and scratch built details so some jack off can make 1000 copies in Taiwan to sell to American kids who're too cheap to see me for the real deal.

 

[Adam]

I made this site, pay for the server/forums/domain and I don't charge you guys for it...

but the cast parts are different.

 

[volkov]

recasting kills all motivation in creating an original product. It narrows choices down to two options, option A. Create something original, spend hours and hours, and then have someone else take it and spend no time but produce the same stuff. Option B. Be the guy who spends no time, but produces the same stuff...

In other words, recasting eliminates any reason for creativity and originality and is a very bad thing for a prop making community.


I hate to border on political debate, but the reason communism fails is, once you don't reward people for effort and originality, there is no incentive for anyone to producequality work. This is not far from what would happen should you simply recast everything without any consequence or benefits to the original.

 

[metalsplinter2]

Yes that's what I think should be allowed Marines and crew men from the first Halo Like I said in another post The AR I think is the signature of what we trying to represent. Everyone knows what the AR is we use them to beat people down on xbox live

my opinion of course

 

[BishopX]

This rationale I want to hear..

I know many people hate recasting, but I think in a situation where the original sculptor allowed recasting with credit to them, there wouldn't be nearly as big of a problem. For one- they're not trying to make a profit anyways... right? If you eliminate profit as a motive, you have.. ego. If credit is assured, that's satisfied, too. NZ-TK's EVA helm will always be NZ-TK's EVA helm, no matter if recast or not. Am I missing something?

This sounds an awful lot like Communism. You eliminate profit from them and generally you eliminate incentive as well. That's exactly why Communism doesn't work. Recognition is not incentive enough. People will always want more. This is a generalization btw.

Recasting is fine if allowed by the original person(s) but is generally not well accepted.

 

[BishopX]

OMG...I missed this entire thread. I just went back and read the last two pages.

I apologize if I am opening old wounds...

Although the 501st is not perfect, you have to look at it this way. It is a fan based club with thousands of members world-wide that is governed and organized well enough to be recognized by Lucasfilm. The key is that it works and is getting bigger and better. I work with Lucasfilm at my job because of the 501st. There's a lot more there than you are giving credit. Obviously, this isn't done over night.

Halo doesn't have anywhere near the fan base of Star Wars to begin with. It's going to take a ton of work to get to the point of where the 501st even started. Master Chief isn't recognized by many people over the age of 25. Darth Vader or Stormtroopers, everyone knows.... Yes, I know you are going to argue numbers of people who recognize Master Chief but the reality is that it's nothing in comparison to Star Wars. The movie has to come out and be a spectacular movie before the world will recognize MC and all the dress suit, fatigued characters from the game. The marines in the game look too much like regular Marines to be recognizable. You'll hear "Wow Mom! That's a soldier from Aliens!"

Good costumes generally cost a fair amount of money. Budgeting $400.00 for a Halloween costume is fine but $400.00 for a "movie quality" set of armor, not realistic. TK armor and accessories for something decent is at least $800-900.

For my last insult.....

Crappy costumes vs. Good costumes.... Most peprikua....costumes are not and never will be "movie quality". Cry all you want, they will just get wet and get soggy. The 501st prides itself on "movie quality" costumes which in most cases are better than the movie by far. "Movie quality" doesn't mean that it is exactly as it was in the movie. Let's face it, movie costumes are often crappy in real life. "Movie quality" means that it is as it is perceived when you watch the movie. If it looks like metal in person then you have done a good paint job. If it looks like metal on film, it's not saying much. You can't get anywhere if you lower standards from the start.

"Let's make millions by making something that's mediocre...." I don't think so. If you set the bar high enough and people achieve that height, others will want to follow. If you set a low bar, people don't take you seriously.

Imagine if you did somehow arrange a charity event for the 405th. You show up with 15 marines and 1 Master Chief as it should be. Everyone has made their own costume and they are each in their own way "spectacular" but, none of them match. The greens of the marines are all different. Some are olive, some are clover and some are just straight out baby $hit green/brown. How does that look to the onlookers? Does it look like an organized group of soldiers and the Master Chief or does it look like we are having a costume contest?

 

[Keegan]

And look who just summarized what the whole thread is about! Nice way to put the whole thing Bishop!

 

[metalsplinter2]

Cheers someone read my post about the movie not being out for the world to know who MC is
and ya I do agree with the alien marines but still we got to start some where

Also is there a way to find out where everyone lives for example most populated state or city with most people in it? It be kinda hard for anyone to meet up if where not at least remotely close to get to a event going.

 

[Assassin716]

it would be a good idea to get a new forum category for states and countries to see whos where and planning for what

 

[BishopX]

I seem to remember there being some sort of Flash map thing that someone posted....

 

[Sean Bradley]

It's here: http://405th.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1758

..but it's been bumping people off for some time. I was one of the first on there and last time I checked it had removed me for some reason..

 

[link4044]

Primal Weyland bro all we ask is to make some good looking armor, dont just stop at resin the paper and say "hey im done" theres lot more to do after that, smoothing and detailing it. we're not looking down on pep suits