Practical Armor Development

[CoolC]

Im not sure how to respond to that. Regardless, I don't think you know what you are getting into. Your intelligence and creativity are impress, but actions speak louder then words. Still, I wish you luck.

I second that.

 

[Claws61821]

@Thorn

No, I have not yet begun construction, although I plan to soon. Some of the concept sketches have been drawn up, though not all, and even those which have look like crap even to my own eyes. Considering that 'concept pictures' to the forum members here seem to have become confused over time with 'proof of concept photographs,' I'm unlikely to post any of said sketches, merely to avoid the flame wars that would result.

To answer your question, I'm planning a mock-up build with functional equipment but no actual armor protection.

And finely IF REAL do you have a license/permit to own heavy mil/law grade armor? YES, I did say are you authorized to own heavy bullet resistant armor.

Really? Huh. Makes sense, though, on some levels. Without the license, it's just the tiniest fraction more difficult for lawbreakers to obtain the protection...
----
@CoolC

The "dream" project cannot be done for multiple reason. When I was young and naive I could remember feeling how cool it was to be Iron Man - with an actual jet pack - and fly around.

Fun, frightening and unrealistic - a dream, indeed. Despite the perhaps absurd amount of technology, I am trying to keep myself grounded with regard to the level of advancement. There's no way I'm about to go "04, 43y 9uy5! 1'\/3 907 /\ 9r3/\7 1d3/\ =0r m/\<1n9 /\ 5413ld 5y573m!" That can't be done with today's level of technology, and I very well know it.

While there is no specific restrictions on "dream" thread, but it is common knowledge here that threads like this are discouraged. Most of the time the thread would start innocently. Then it would escalate into name throwing. At the end of the day, insult would get thrown.

Ahh...the sort of thing an occasional/casual lurker might not pick up on prior to registration. Thanks, CoolC.

Thread like this will not go anywhere. Discussion like this on our current military might will not go anywhere. The budget, the available technology in our military is beyond our control. As attested by Airoch that the brains our military couldn't come up with a working prototype. For a modeler to come up with an armor that satisfies the needs of the military is of course impossible.

Hence the intention to build a proof-of-concept instead of something actually up to MilSpec.

Just enjoy building armor

Yes, sir! Although, if I may put in my own two bits, I think it would be better for naysayers to 'cut the crap' instead of those with ideas of how to help.

 

[Claws61821]

@Agent Arizona & CoolC

Thanks again, and luck be with you, as well.

 

[tsau mia]

I did read this thread in it's entirety, and everyone's got a pretty good point. This is a costume build site, however, the OP is looking for intelligent ideas that might promote a decent prototype of a functional military-grade armor that could help our troops out there.
For one, the radar sounds like a great idea. And me, having absolutely no computer programming or radar knowledge, am not confined by thoughts of "what's possible". Would it be possible to program the radar to ignore anything moving that is smaller than a person? In that way, it wouldn't pick up leaves and bees, but larger things like horses, people, lions, and large animals that could also kill you, including vehicles as well.
A "shield" system could be in place, but it only informs you of the status of your armor. Say, you get shot and a dent happens that is 1/16" deep in 2" thick armor. Your status bar goes down 1/32 of the way. You keep getting shot and a crack appears that goes 3/4 of the way through. The wires running through the armor get severed or damaged and can no longer communicate to the computer system, so your HUD reads that your armor is down to 1/4 protection. If a suit of military grade armor could work that way, then it could also automatically pinpoint where other troops should go (on their radar because their comrade's suit was damaged) and give a location to provide backup. It could also contact headquarters, and bring up a satellite image on a computer.

Like I said, I have no idea what's possible except though what I've learned in games and CSI, and I know that's not very realistic, but I'm under the impression that with enough time and money, anything can be real.

Also, this guy could be Warren Buffett for all we know, and have billions of dollars to put into producing this kind of system.

 

[Claws61821]

Would it be possible to program the radar to ignore anything moving that is smaller than a person? In that way, it wouldn't pick up leaves and bees, but larger things like horses, people, lions, and large animals that could also kill you, including vehicles as well.

It probably is possible, although it might be best to have it detect small children, as well (say 2' tall, ~50lbs.). That would prevent it from getting false positives from most small animals, but would still alert you to, say, a rabid boar or pack of animals when hunting or evading someone through the woods. Unfortunately, setting the response limit at that size would also prevent it from reporting grenades being thrown toward you from awkward angles.

A "shield" system could be in place, but it only informs you of the status of your armor....

An armor integrity bar. I could see that. The way you suggest it functioning would probably work, too.

If a suit of military grade armor could work that way, then it could also automatically pinpoint where other troops should go (on their radar because their comrade's suit was damaged) and give a location to provide backup. It could also contact headquarters, and bring up a satellite image on a computer.

Hence the virtual uplink to Base. In fact, that would be less likely to report false alarms to Base than the medical leads alone, and it could work together with those leads for even greater accuracy.

Also, this guy could be Warren Buffett for all we know, and have billions of dollars to put into producing this kind of system.

LOL
Nope, no Warren here - no Jimmy, either, for that matter!

Thanks for the support, Tsau-Mia.

 

[Josiahmann]

Aight. Didn't read it, but read the comments and get the general idea. I think this is a cool idea and you should try it. Honestly people, lay off the guy. "Noobs" should be treated with respect (except the ones asking for armor of course XD).

So personally, I think you should go for it man. Great idea.

(Sorry if this "offended" anyone lol)

 

[Plasma Code]

Do you have the physics and resources to do this? Id be happy to help out on the mechanics, as I too would like effective armor. Some of the things however seem a little too complex and may be impossible to do with modern tech, but starting off with the essentials and building up seems like the best route.

 

[Claws61821]

Thanks for the support, Josiah.

@Code

When you ask about the physics, do you mean the mathematical calculations? If so, not presently; if not, I have no idea. As for the resources, I'm planning to use storebought tech as much as possible to build the equipment, with the rest likely being home-crafted or commissioned circuits of personal design.

For the costume armor itself, I'm hoping to use foam patterns to make silicone moulds and cast into those, but I've been having trouble locating bulk sizes or quantities around Overland Park, Kansas.

 

[matth101]

im with Ventrue and Agent A on this. C'mon, think reality. Systems alone will take a defense department budget and top of the line engineering skills. Think realistic. This is a costuming site, not a build-your-own-body armor site. Hope you got an insane amount of income and a super knowledge of engineering.
.....or maybe this guy is the real Tony Stark??!!

I think I'm going to stop reading the "noob" section for good after reading this thread....

 

[tsau mia]

Look Guys, for $400 you can have a real HUD display http://pointofviewcameras.com/transcend-spx-gps-display-goggles-by-zeal-optics.html

The question is, could you hack it, program it, and rig a system to send the correct information to the feedback screen?

It's not really a question of if, but more a question of how and when.

 

[Arioch]

I really think this thread will be locked before long. Not because of the discussion or ideas, but because the guys here encourage safety. Testing real armor brings an unsafe element which the guys here will not promote, Im sure of that. They dont like paintball discussions about halo armor. My suggestion is to take this to PMs, email or some other form of communication because I dont think it will have a very long life on these forums. Though I enjoy theoretical real armor discussion and would love to see it put to testing!

Regardless, we have to think of the younger members who may become encouraged to try something foolish.

 

[Plasma Code]

Thanks for the support, Josiah.

@Code

When you ask about the physics, do you mean the mathematical calculations? If so, not presently; if not, I have no idea. As for the resources, I'm planning to use storebought tech as much as possible to build the equipment, with the rest likely being home-crafted or commissioned circuits of personal design.

For the costume armor itself, I'm hoping to use foam patterns to make silicone moulds and cast into those, but I've been having trouble locating bulk sizes or quantities around Overland Park, Kansas.

The math indeed mate. Well, as far as making it bullet resistant, the math will literally save your life, and it's also good for connecting the electronics (Ventrue and thatdecade are good in that field). Now you should get familiar with Newtonian mechanics, circuits, and chemistry. These will serve you well. We're all here to help.

 

[Claws61821]

@Tsau-Mia

The IF question:

IF you do buy that and hack the firmware, how will you integrate it into your helmet and will it replace or join the standard shield/visor?

 

[Claws61821]

@Arioch

I'm not planning on making the basic armor itself functional, just the equpment within - and I think that's the fifth time I've explained that in twenty-four hours... Even if I added Tsau-Mia's idea for the integrity bar, I certainly wouldn't test that by wearing the armor - I'd make a few scrap pieces of increasing volume and test them on stands.

@Code

Thanks for the info - I'll be sure to look into those subjects further.

 

[Roadkiller]

Tony Hurtubise has bankrupted himself working on these concepts.( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_Hurtubise ) He spent seven years and $150,000 to build a suit he believed could protect him from a grizzly bear. How much time and effort would be really needed to build something to protect yourself from human beings armed with firearms?

Well, as I've pointed out above, to date the US Defense Department has spent a 1/2 billion dollars and failed to make anything useful in the field ...
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/4215715

But go ahead, however, before hacking up $400 ski goggles, read the PM article carefully to determine what soldiers in the field actually want and will use. Most militaries are now leaning to various forms of robotic and autonomous systems as the likely path of the future, "the military goal is to have approximately 30% of the Army comprised of robotic forces by approximately 2020."
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/08/080804190711.htm

 

[ShinigamiNG]

I'm not gonna lie, I'm actually kind of shocked at the amount of downright bashing this thread is getting. I imagine it is the same type of bashing the Wright brothers received before they built the first airplane. Just because he has an awesome idea that sounds crazy, doesn't mean it will "never" work. It may be hard to imagine, but someday in the future I'm sure many of these ideas will be quite possible. That future could be very soon, with people actively "trying" to make things happen, or people passively sitting there and doing nothing. I understand constructive criticism, and this is definitely not it. I'm not saying he'll be able to go into his garage and throw everything together in one go and become a multimillionaire. It normally doesn't work that way. But I am saying that his ideas shouldn't just be thrown down, actually think about it for a second. No, it may not be feasible or even practical for some of the things on that list. Like a few have pointed out, a health bar probably wouldn't benefit a soldier in a battlefield situation too much. But sending those statistics to the nearest medics or base in real-time could help save that soldiers life.

Also, someone bashed the idea of having radios in the suit. Really? How is that a bad idea at all? Both I and my wife will have walkie talkies integrated into our suits even at Cons, that way when we split up or get separated, we can stay in communication at all times. That seems like a very practical use. Why bash it? Soldiers have radios. Nascar drivers have radios to communicate with the pit crews. Why is integrating that into the suit being bashed?

Basically what I'm saying is that he has some ideas, some of them could possibly be great, some of them MAY be impossible. But we really don't know that unless someone tries. I'm not encouraging anyone to go out and waste millions on crazy ideas. But like he said, he is researching the ideas, that's not hurting anyone. He might be able to get some of the cheaper or simpler ideas working. And then upgrade his suit. Like he said again, he is making a "prototype". That means he is testing out ideas. Personally, I wish him the best of luck. I think more people in this world need to use their imagination and creative minds. We wouldn't have cars today if Henry Ford hadn't built the first combustion engine in his shed. I don't know who invented the television, but I'm sure people thought he was crazy for sending "moving pictures" to a box that sits in their living rooms. Maybe Claws will be able to do something. Maybe he won't, but at least he is willing to try.

PS, as a side note Claws, did I read that you are in Overland Park? How far is that from Wichita? As far as I knew I'm the only 405th'er in Wichita/Ks area. It would be pretty cool to meet up with someone else and exchange ideas/work on suits together. I get kinda bored doing it myself all the time.

 

[ventrue]

That said, you do make a point regarding the traditional health bar, although it would likely be replaced in this system by the standard line graphs of the medical equipment. In either case, I suppose streaming the readout to the display might actually turn out useless or counterproductive.

It would be annoying at best. Unless he has medical training, it would give him zero additional information and just be some other blinking gimmick he doesn't need.
I know such graphs are often part of game HUDs, but they are there to tell the player when "he" is out of breath, not because they're actually useful.

you can actually get new filters pretty cheap at your local hardware store without buying a whole mask

I think military NBC filters and masks are in a whole different league than what your hardware store sells.

It wouldn't have to be a secondary weapon. It could just as easily be his primary

Then why not just keep it simple and use a strap?

He actually might hold the weapon up 'just for show' simply for the psychological response in his mind - I'm holding up the scope, so it's less jarring to suddenly see such distant environs so closely.

I think it's because he has to look cool for the player. Some Halo Rifles don't even have anything to aim with, aside from what has been interpreted into them after the game's release. Totally un-realistic.

You mean that ugly concept that you're about the only one to keep mentioning and which I've been trying very hard to ignore in my work for a year or two?

Yes.

Would it be possible to program the radar to ignore anything moving that is smaller than a person? In that way, it wouldn't pick up leaves and bees, but larger things like horses, people, lions, and large animals that could also kill you, including vehicles as well.

I think it would be insanely hard to identify every single leaf as a moving object. The system would rather pick the whole tree up as one large object.
I think the better thing to do would be to specifically look for known "profiles" or things that definitely stand out (like the sound of a plane that isn't a friendly one, or a large metal thing int he middle of nowhere) instead of interpreting something as basic as motion as a threat. The computer needs to be very picky about what it flags, because every flag distracts the wearer's attention rom the real world.

Honestly people, lay off the guy. "Noobs" should be treated with respect (except the ones asking for armor of course XD).

Who isn't treating him with respect and why is it allowed to treat somebody who asks for armour in a disrespectful way?

Look Guys, for $400 you can have a real HUD display http://pointofviewcameras.com/transcend-spx-gps-display-goggles-by-zeal-optics.html

The info is not actually projected into the field of view when you wear these glasses. You have to look at the little screen in the bottom right corner.

 

[Arioch]

Claws is in OP? Im like 20 minutes from there, in Bonner.

Oh, and Im not bashing, I love the ideas! I have clone helmet with integrated radio and PTT, lights... the whole bit. Im already thinking of ways to integrate motion detectors into a halo suit.

If youre that close by, maybe we could help each other out.

And OP is about 3 or so hours from Wichita.

 

[ShinigamiNG]

I may have read wrong, but his profile does say Kansas at least. And I travel up to Bonner Springs for the Ren Faire lol. There was someone bashing the radio idea, not sure who and its hard to doublecheck on my phone.

While some of the ideas may be unrealistic or just not practical, some of them may need a little work on the concept, but could be very useful.

And ventrue, while the medical charts may actually be a waste for the injured soldier, it might be a good idea to take into account that most soldiers do have some basic medical training. Though I doubt that includes reading or understanding said charts. If it was simplified for the soldier to more easily understand, it could be useful.most of us understand heart rates and blood pressure on a standard level (I assume) and the soldier may get shot, realize he is wounded, but not know how critical it is. With adrenaline pumping in a combat scenario, his blood pressure will drop very quickly as he bleeds out some type of warning for the soldier "may" be a good idea. Though I still think a real time update being transimitted to the nearest hq or medic station displaying vitals could be very useful. Even if the soldier isn't receiving the info directly, they could send help/backup. Just a thought expanding on the original idea.

 

[M071]

I read through this entire thread and we should never get upset for someone trying to come up with a new idea. Personally I’m involved in development projects all the time and people will always call you crazy until they start to see some of your ideas come to life. A few years ago I came up with an idea to be able to carry a heavy backpack and using a light and simple exoskeleton and transmit load directly to the ground. With a little encouragement from my sister a West Point graduate with a Masters in civil engineering and fluent in five languages Russian, Arabic, Farsi, Spanish and one other Arabic-based language that escapes me at the moment and is involved in frontline combat engineering. Her encouragement came from the fact that my company has one contracts to fabricate armor plates for civilian Sikorsky aircraft( that‘s why I typically respond to any thread about titanium armor). A long story short after investing tens of thousands of dollars in building several prototypes and going through the testing phase your ego will be shattered and you quickly discover there are many factors to the protection a soldier wears in the field and considerations that we don’t account for. If you have a working prototype or concept you can contact DARPA or the DOD and they will gladly consider and test your concept if it hasn’t already developed. I’ve also seen some of the other prototypes in action that major corporations are developing ,Raytheon with there suit comes to mind and there are also several other companies spending millions on similar ideas and everything discussed in this thread is at least a decade behind what is currently on the prototype fields. Feel free to contact me and I’ll be happy to discuss the procedures and processes not to mention the costs to bringing ideas to reality. This website is dedicated to building replica armor with like-minded people and that’s what we should stick to and certainly shouldn’t discourage anyone from adding cool features emulating our Spartan heroes
Good luck

PS I have those ski goggles which I use for snowboarding and I find it annoying and wear my $30 goggles when I’m out with buddies or kids ..