WinterHuntsman’s ODST build WIP

[PaiganBoi]

Check out this vid on different ways for sealing foam props.

 

[xXDashIVXx]

Ok, so going to work on the helmet for awhile so there most likely won’t be any updates from me until the helmet is done.
Out of curiosity what’s the next step after assembling the foam pieces? I assume there has to be some gap filling and sanding, but I feel like there is more as I doubt paint could be applied directly and not be chipped apart by bending foam.
So now that the chest is assembled with a few gaps here or there, where do I go next? Couldn’t find that info in any of the tutorials I read.

Your going to want to heat seal the foam with a heatgun or something of the sort. This will seal the poors up and make painting easier, but have it also hold its shape! If the seams are close and glued together, sanding will completely remove the seam. If there are gaps, you will need to fill it with putty. Paint wise, most people use plasti dip as a primer. It is like a rubber, but after severe flexing and wear, it will start to wrinkle. Your standard spray paint or acrylics should work just fine on top of that. If you want your suit to be painted perfectly, I will turn you over to ExCeLLuR8 as he has more experiance and can probably explain it better.

 

[master_colt_117]

Your going to want to heat seal the foam with a heatgun or something of the sort. This will seal the poors up and make painting easier, but have it also hold its shape! If the seams are close and glued together, sanding will completely remove the seam. If there are gaps, you will need to fill it with putty. Paint wise, most people use plasti dip as a primer. It is like a rubber, but after severe flexing and wear, it will start to wrinkle. Your standard spray paint or acrylics should work just fine on top of that. If you want your suit to be painted perfectly, I will turn you over to ExCeLLuR8 as he has more experiance and can probably explain it better.

OK.. so obviously you want your assembly to be as clean as possible. The cleaner the better but to do it right, still tons of work too do. At this point I heat seal the foam cause construction is done. (I've also previously mentioned how I reinforce my armor to be crazy strong by coating the entire inside with shoe goo after assembly). If you're using super glue for assembly, it works great but can leave hard crusty edges or dried sluff. This is where light sanding with 320 grit comes in to play. Not trying to remove foam so much as you're just trying to sand the excess dried glue smooth. Now say you have a seam not quite coming together clean or foam that didn't land quite right or uneven. Yes absolutely you can sand it in to submission. Don't bare into it so hard as to damage it but more glide the sand paper across with enough pressure to make clean passes gently removing foam to get the desired smooth shape. I love sanding blocks, I cannot express how much I use them. The next part, you're all sanded clean. Now quik seal caulk comes into play. I use it 98% of the time and foam clay the other 2%. I actually mold edges and seams into shape with the caulk. I build it up enough to hide an unwanted seam, I also fill in every edge of my armor with a light bead of caulk so that when rubber coating, the edge builds up evenly. On areas needing a lot of shaping or attention, I build the caulk up and layers as it drys and then once desirable, yes I sand that too. Caulk, sand, feel, repeat until perfect. For an uneven surface, build uo in layers with caulk and sand smooth. Think of it like prepping you drywall in your house for paint. Once all of that is done, I hand brush on a light layer of black acrylic paint. This helps me see imperfections I may have missed that need caulk of sanding, it also soaks into the foam and sorta seals it a little more post the heat sealing you've already done. If you cut a cross section on a test piece that was painted, you can see this adsorption. Once that has dried for a day, it is time for rubber coating. As dash mentioned, plasti dip is really not durable. It wrinkles, peels, and easily tears. I'm not a fan. I use rustoleum leak seal, it's way stronger, more durable and resilient and offera true strength and protection to the foam. It also is sandable. I start off by spraying that prepped piece with multiple coats, starting light and building up. Let that dry for 24hrs, the next day I search for more imperfections, and you guessed it, I caulk those and sand as necessary also. I wipe that piece with alcohol to clean and spray multiple more coats and let dry for a week before doing anything else. At this point it's done. But wait there's more. Leak seal does leave an orange peel surface. So yes you guessed it, I lightly sand smooth and wipe with alcohol right before painting. For paint I have found in my extensive testing, exterior latex enamel house paint is crazy strong. It can flex like a rubber band and doesn't peel, crack, flake, or rub off. Acrylics are also great and usually pretty flexible, some more than others. Always TEST unknown product on scraps before touching your actual armor, you've worked this hard, what's a few more minutes for testing. The biggest thing I found, you can't rush perfection. Here are a few pics as examples

 

[xXDashIVXx]

OK.. so obviously you want your assembly to be as clean as possible. The cleaner the better but to do it right, still tons of work too do. At this point I heat seal the foam cause construction is done. (I've also previously mentioned how I reinforce my armor to be crazy strong by coating the entire inside with shoe goo after assembly). If you're using super glue for assembly, it works great but can leave hard crusty edges or dried sluff. This is where light sanding with 320 grit comes in to play. Not trying to remove foam so much as you're just trying to sand the excess dried glue smooth. Now say you have a seam not quite coming together clean or foam that didn't land quite right or uneven. Yes absolutely you can sand it in to submission. Don't bare into it so hard as to damage it but more glide the sand paper across with enough pressure to make clean passes gently removing foam to get the desired smooth shape. I love sanding blocks, I cannot express how much I use them. The next part, you're all sanded clean. Now quik seal caulk comes into play. I use it 98% of the time and foam clay the other 2%. I actually mold edges and seams into shape with the caulk. I build it up enough to hide an unwanted seam, I also fill in every edge of my armor with a light bead of caulk so that when rubber coating, the edge builds up evenly. On areas needing a lot of shaping or attention, I build the caulk up and layers as it drys and then once desirable, yes I sand that too. Caulk, sand, feel, repeat until perfect. For an uneven surface, build uo in layers with caulk and sand smooth. Think of it like prepping you drywall in your house for paint. Once all of that is done, I hand brush on a light layer of black acrylic paint. This helps me see imperfections I may have missed that need caulk of sanding, it also soaks into the foam and sorta seals it a little more post the heat sealing you've already done. If you cut a cross section on a test piece that was painted, you can see this adsorption. Once that has dried for a day, it is time for rubber coating. As dash mentioned, plasti dip is really not durable. It wrinkles, peels, and easily tears. I'm not a fan. I use rustoleum leak seal, it's way stronger, more durable and resilient and offera true strength and protection to the foam. It also is sandable. I start off by spraying that prepped piece with multiple coats, starting light and building up. Let that dry for 24hrs, the next day I search for more imperfections, and you guessed it, I caulk those and sand as necessary also. I wipe that piece with alcohol to clean and spray multiple more coats and let dry for a week before doing anything else. At this point it's done. But wait there's more. Leak seal does leave an orange peel surface. So yes you guessed it, I lightly sand smooth and wipe with alcohol right before painting. For paint I have found in my extensive testing, exterior latex enamel house paint is crazy strong. It can flex like a rubber band and doesn't peel, crack, flake, or rub off. Acrylics are also great and usually pretty flexible, some more than others. Always TEST unknown product on scraps before touching your actual armor, you've worked this hard, what's a few more minutes for testing. The biggest thing I found, you can't rush perfection. Here are a few pics as examples

View attachment 270403View attachment 270404View attachment 270405View attachment 270406View attachment 270407View attachment 270408View attachment 270409View attachment 270410

You REALLY need to write a book, and informed all the big name youtubers all the things they are doing wrong

 

[master_colt_117]

You REALLY need to write a book, and informed all the big name youtubers all the things they are doing wrong

Hahaha hey there are some great youtubers out there and definitely some not so great ones. I love seeing everyone's work equally and enjoy sharing what I have learned not only in this hobby but from a lifetime of building things. At the end of the day, the level of effort you put in determines what you will receive back out. Rushing is easy, striving for every detail and pursuing perfection is hard work.

 

[WinterHuntsman]

Well carp. I may need to start from square one again.
It’s not sealing up how I would like it to and it just looks bad.
Some area look good

But the rest is just a complete utter mess of glue jagged cuts, and sloppy work.

I doubt I can salvage anything from this attempt. I don’t know if my issue is to thick of foam, inexperience, wanting to have it done by August, or a combination of all that.

All I know is I’m probably going to have to start a third attempt. At least the helmet pep is going better than this.
I’ll keep you guys updated on the new stuff, but it may be awhile since I’m going to take my time this time around.

 

[master_colt_117]

Well carp. I may need to start from square one again.
It’s not sealing up how I would like it to and it just looks bad.
Some area look good
View attachment 270411
But the rest is just a complete utter mess of glue jagged cuts, and sloppy work.
View attachment 270412

I doubt I can salvage anything from this attempt. I don’t know if my issue is to thick of foam, inexperience, wanting to have it done by August, or a combination of all that.

All I know is I’m probably going to have to start a third attempt. At least the helmet pep is going better than this.
I’ll keep you guys updated on the new stuff, but it may be awhile since I’m going to take my time this time around.

I can tell you right now your issue is not thick foam. I use 12mm foam to do the finest detail work. My hi Def helmet is completely build from 12mm foam, nothing else. It just takes practice and time. Ask any one on here, I have rebuild pieces so many times. I build 3 helmets until it was right. It takes practice and usually the piece comes out better the second or 3rd time. Have you already plasti dipped the torso? If so, not much you can do to it sanding wise. Plasti dip will peel with sanding, that's why leak seal is so much better. It's very sandable. The gaps that you have on the front shoulders can definitely be sculpted smooth with caulk, lightly sanded, and sprayed again. Build up caulk in layers as each layer cures. The back with jagged edges could be sanded smooth if you have not plasti dipped. What knife are you using? You need sharp blades that cut with little to no resistance. I only use exacto knives. Box cutters do not cut clean enough imo. I use them for certain things, but I use exactos for 99 percent of everything. You'll get edges that looked like a machine cut it out. Here are some pics of my helmet using 12mm foam only

 

[xXDashIVXx]

You may be able to glue some of those gaps back down. If you are using hot glue, that may be the problem. If your using contact cement, let the adhesive dry most of the way, then add another coat, and wait for it to dry. This will make the bond extra strong. Let your OCD kick in and take your time. Try and make sure everything is PERFECT and dont say it is good enough, or I will fix it later. If you do this, not only will the seams be very minimal, but the finish work will also be flawless. I hate to see a peice need to be remade. I hope you can salvage it, but if you feel like the best way to improve is to start over, go for it!

 

[master_colt_117]

You may be able to glue some of those gaps back down. If you are using hot glue, that may be the problem. If your using contact cement, let the adhesive dry most of the way, then add another coat, and wait for it to dry. This will make the bond extra strong. Let your OCD kick in and take your time. Try and make sure everything is PERFECT and dont say it is good enough, or I will fix it later. If you do this, not only will the seams be very minimal, but the finish work will also be flawless. I hate to see a peice need to be remade. I hope you can salvage it, but if you feel like the best way to improve is to start over, go for it!

Me personally, I love rebuilding. I think you will achieve your best skill and end results this way. Plus you'll have spare pieces to test paint jobs on as well, cause practice is definitely key if you want the paint job to look real. I know Phil with Evakura builds everything twice, one time for a practice run and scale check and then moves to final run. Everyone is different and it just depends on what your expectations are. Me personally, I don't stop till its perfect.

 

[WinterHuntsman]

I can tell you right now your issue is not thick foam. I use 12mm foam to do the finest detail work. My hi Def helmet is completely build from 12mm foam, nothing else. It just takes practice and time. Ask any one on here, I have rebuild pieces so many times. I build 3 helmets until it was right. It takes practice and usually the piece comes out better the second or 3rd time. Have you already plasti dipped the torso? If so, not much you can do to it sanding wise. Plasti dip will peel with sanding, that's why leak seal is so much better. It's very sandable. The gaps that you have on the front shoulders can definitely be sculpted smooth with caulk, lightly sanded, and sprayed again. Build up caulk in layers as each layer cures. The back with jagged edges could be sanded smooth if you have not plasti dipped. What knife are you using? You need sharp blades that cut with little to no resistance. I only use exacto knives. Box cutters do not cut clean enough imo. I use them for certain things, but I use exactos for 99 percent of everything. You'll get edges that looked like a machine cut it out. Here are some pics of my helmet using 12mm foam only

View attachment 270416View attachment 270417

I had not done the dip. Reason I want to restart is I know what I need to fix, and when I was heating the old one to seal it I wasn’t paying attention and areas that didn’t have support like the chest plate just caved, becoming flat.
First thing I got to do though is run all my blades through a sharper so I can get clean cuts. Hopefully the kitchen knife sharpener can do that for me

 

[master_colt_117]

I had not done the dip. Reason I want to restart is I know what I need to fix, and when I was heating the old one to seal it I wasn’t paying attention and areas that didn’t have support like the chest plate just caved, becoming flat.
First thing I got to do though is run all my blades through a sharper so I can get clean cuts. Hopefully the kitchen knife sharpener can do that for me

Ok so being that ypu havent plasti dipped the piece. Practice sanding seams into submission. Practice caulking sculpting techniques to get smooth surfaces. Keep a Tupperware container close by with water to constantly rinse your hands clean as you apply caulk. If you've made up you mind to redo it, you might as well practice as much as you can on this piece first for your own knowledge. Make some sanding sticks and get sanding blocks. I use 320 and no 400 grit mostly. You have nothing to lose on this piece and you may even get it to a point where you like it! Also. You can always re heat form an armor piece onces it's completely built out. I do it all the time. If something isnt quite qiving me the shape I want, I tweak it with heat from the inside and form it till i like it. Never heat foam by applying heat to it on the outside surface unless to quickly heat seal or open score marks. That much heat it takes to get it hot enough can ruin the surface. Always heat up your foam from the inside. Sometimes wearing gloves is important. It gets hot! You mentioned you chest plate caved in with heat.. reheat that thing on the inside and form it back to shape.

I cannot stress how important measuring your pieces into place during assembly is too. If you want your complete armor piece to look like your pepakura 3d model. Measuring every piece as you assemble together using the point to point measuring tool in pepakura is critical. Simply just putting pieces together can make armor look warpped or misshaped. It's easy to get off and not realize till the end. Using register marks helps too. Say I want a .25" overlap edge detail on my armor when joining two pieces of foam. Use your ruler to put .25" marks all the way down every couple of inches. Shoot, draw a straight line if you need too. Trusting your eye, can get you in trouble. Haha

 

[TurboCharizard]

You REALLY need to write a book, and informed all the big name youtubers all the things they are doing wrong

It's not so much that they get it wrong, there's no such thing as making costumes incorrectly, it's likely that they weighed some pros and cons and decided that was best for them. A lot of us 405th members make a suit and wear to multiple conventions over several years so we want something durable that'll stand the test of time. Some of those YouTubers are making multiple costumes a year for each con they go to so the name of the game there is fast and cheap. It's a balancing game of the triangle "fast", "cheap", "good" where you can only pick two.

 

[Sean Anwalt]

Once the foam construction is finished, heat seal it by running a heat gun over it real quick. Just a feather touch, don't over do it. Then seal the foam with your choice of whatever. You can use mod podge, flex seal, latex rubber, leak seal, or anything, really. It depends how much you want to spend and how much abuse your suit will take.

THEN you can paint it.

Then seal the paint, obviously...

As far as the sloppiness you alluded to, I believe it's because of hot glue. Sorry if this was already mentioned, but I didn't see this whole page until just now, so I'm editing my response and didn't bist reading about half of what others said. They are full of wisdom do listen to them!

But hot glue sucks noodles for attaching foam together, don't use it. Only use it to back your seams. Otherwise you get gloppy, clumpy results like that.

 

[master_colt_117]

Once the foam construction is finished, heat seal it by running a heat gun over it real quick. Just a feather touch, don't over do it. Then seal the foam with your choice of whatever. You can use mod podge, flex seal, latex rubber, leak seal, or anything, really. It depends how much you want to spend and how much abuse your suit will take.

THEN you can paint it.

Then seal the paint, obviously...

As far as the sloppiness you alluded to, I believe it's because of hot glue. Sorry if this was already mentioned, but I didn't see this whole page until just now, so I'm editing my response and didn't bist reading about half of what others said. They are full of wisdom do listen to them!



But hot glue sucks noodles for attaching foam together, don't use it. Only use it to back your seams. Otherwise you get gloppy, clumpy results like that.

Yup 100% agree to all that. I just now realized the hot glue. Yeah hot glue is good for backing seams on the INSIDE of the armor, certainly cheaper than my shoegoo method, but a good method none the less. But hot glue for assembly of pieces will leave messy results. You're better off with 5sec super glue or a contact cement for assembly.

 

[WinterHuntsman]

I use the 5 second super glue. Most of what you saw out of the last photo was me using extra foam, cramming it into cracks, the coating it with the glue so it would stay, and finally sanding that.
I don’t know why I thought that would work.
Anyways. Got one unused blade left and 6 that need sharpening so there won’t be a lot of progress. Going to just focus on getting everything cut out nicely first, then beveling to help with angles, after that bending the foam with the heat gun, and finally assembling very slowly.
I learned a lot so I’m hoping 3rd times the charm.

 

[master_colt_117]

I use the 5 second super glue. Most of what you saw out of the last photo was me using extra foam, cramming it into cracks, the coating it with the glue so it would stay, and finally sanding that.
I don’t know why I thought that would work.
Anyways. Got one unused blade left and 6 that need sharpening so there won’t be a lot of progress. Going to just focus on getting everything cut out nicely first, then beveling to help with angles, after that bending the foam with the heat gun, and finally assembling very slowly.
I learned a lot so I’m hoping 3rd times the charm.

OK one more tip. I don't cut my pieces out ahead of time because I rarely cut straight 90 degree angle cuts unless the armor detail demands it. Cut one piece out at a time as you assemble. Build you armor piece in separate smaller sections and assemble those larger sections at the end. The reason why, in case you mess up a piece, at least youre not losing the entire armor piece maybe just that section, plus you may be able to fix a bad piece as well or at least cut into off and recut a new piece and replace it. Always smarter to build in sections.

The reason I cut one piece out at a time during assemble is because depending on the angle the armor surface needs to depict determines the angle in which I cut the seam. Sometimes the bevel goes inward, sometimes the bevel seam goes outward to form say a 45 degree inward angle on the armor surface. The angles on the cuts can vary and really I can't tell you what determine the cut angle other than studying the 3d model and having the "feel" for it. So I study my model and look at the angles I need, I then mark my templates with cut symbols that quickly tell me what type of angle I need. I test fit the piece without glue and if the seam angle isn't right, I recut the piece. Here are examples of my template cut symbols and some cut angles on foam

 

[master_colt_117]

I use the 5 second super glue. Most of what you saw out of the last photo was me using extra foam, cramming it into cracks, the coating it with the glue so it would stay, and finally sanding that.
I don’t know why I thought that would work.
Anyways. Got one unused blade left and 6 that need sharpening so there won’t be a lot of progress. Going to just focus on getting everything cut out nicely first, then beveling to help with angles, after that bending the foam with the heat gun, and finally assembling very slowly.
I learned a lot so I’m hoping 3rd times the charm.

Also check out angelegend on YouTube building his halo 4 Chief. He has great tutorials using 5 sec super glue. To much of that glue is actually a bad thing. It hardens quick and does not allow foam adhesion. You want to use it sparing, just enough to get a full joined seam. Use scrap foam to wipe away excess glue before it hardens into a white flakey sub stance on your foam. I also lightly scuff my foam with sandpaper or dremel before gluing, really helps the glue bond quicker and stronger. Checkout angelegend, he shows all of this on youtube.

 

[WinterHuntsman]

Sorry about the lack of updates. Been doing my summer chemistry classes. Foam is going slowly, but I’m getting better and more clean edges this time around.

What’s showing the most progress is the paper part of the helmet. It just needs the chin and left side done now. It’s a little big but still the right size so I’ll have to pack some foam inside it once it’s been coated, sanded, and painted.

 

[TurboCharizard]

You're definitely showing improvement!

For those curves which you can't really use a ruler to guide your blade just remember the airbrush/spray painting technique of "don't focus on where you're at but where you're heading to". If you pay attention to where your tool is you lose the fluid motion and stay in one spot too long. Plan your path and just give 'er.

 

[he4thbar]

Plan your path and just give 'er.

Just Full send that blade.