Disappointed With Reach?

[DogWizard]

While I agree on some of your other points, I have to point out that in Halo, we're used to Marine and Navy weaponry and equipment. In Reach, the materiel is all Army (As stated on Bungie.net), since you're working in the Army, instead of the Marines. In real life, Marines and Army soldiers use different equipment, especially in specialty (I don't think it gets more specialized than Spartan), and so do UNSC troops. Besides, as you said, the weapons are variants on other weapons. The DMR is a BR-55 with a different mechanism and a larger bore, the MA-37 is the Army variant of the MA-5, and that's pretty much every new human weapon we've seen relatives to in the past. Grenade Launchers are kinda frowned upon on ships, I'd assume, and Splasers are expensive and rare, so they could exist prior to 3, but not be used until then. Covenant weapons can never be taken for granted, because of the sheer expanse of their armada, and the differences we see between the 3 existing games, anyway.



Same goes for equip. I mean, Mk.V was around a year before Master Chief donned it, and again, some equipment is too expensive to mass-produce for many Spartans. I mean, Noble Team is the only canon excuse (Because Multiplayer isn't canon, obviously) for that, and they're a 6-MAN ARMY team versus a 33-man Navy team.



All I'm saying is you shouldn't complain about continuity when all you've played is a MULTIPLAYER BETA. When the FINAL CAMPAIGN is played, we can discuss this issue.

And as I said before - everyone gets an opinion. You obviously have one and while I don't agree, I don't begrudge you yours so how about you allow me mine. As far as addressing your specific points:





Exactly how many weapons, equipment options, and abilities appear in the Halo 3 multiplayer and don't appear in the campaign? They are going to use the same "base starting point" for both. While multiplayer gameplay itself may not be canon, the technology, abilities, weapons, vehicles, characters, etc. usually track pretty much spot-on.





Too expensive for the Spartan II's? Really? Active Camo, Armor lock with bonus EMP, and Jetpacks were all available on Reach and the SII's weren't allowed to use/know about them - even with the fate of the Human race at stake? Sprint as a "special ability"? And reticle bloom? This really is nothing but a shout-out the the COD/MW crew. There is nothing inherently wrong with that in a FPS, but why add it now? A Spartan that is strong enough to flip a tank all by himself and can apparently lock his armor to the point of total invincibility can't hold a rifle steady anymore? Did all these new Spartans call in sick for marksmanship training day?





I'll grant you the Covenant weapon diversity but "The DMR is a BR-55 with a different mechanism and a larger bore" - what? So other than the fact that it uses different ammunition, has a different magazine/round capacity, has a longer effective range, has a completely different configuration, and operates in semi-auto only, it's the same? It's an entirely different weapons platform. It's a big universe and the UNSC is welcome to have as many different weapons as they want but please don't pretend that that the DMR and BR are the same, only different. The problem isn't the diversity of weapons, it's the fact that they seem to come and go for no logical reason. The BR was a MAJOR weapons platform - it seemed to be everywhere and now it just disappears? (Don't get me wrong, I think I prefer the DMR but continuity within the Haloverse is the point - not my personal preference)





As far as grenade launchers on ships - there sure seemed to be plenty of grenades available on every ship/space station so far and since Spartans seem more than capable of tossing the old pinapple quite a distance I'm not really buying that one. Granted I could see them being more prevalent in the Army for dedicated land engagements but unavailable to the best soldiers the UNSC could field on a Navy Frigate during a make-or-break secret mission into unknown space to save Humanity?





All that being said, the weapons are only the smallest part of the continuity issue for me. It's the new "magical abilities" and yet another group of "secret and different" Spartans with completely different tech that seem to have appeared out of nowhere that I have the biggest issue with. Those, in conjunction with the other changes, just moved this out of the "Haloverse" for me. I never said that it was necessarily a bad game, it just veers sharply from what Halo has been up to this point.





Campaign is actually the one thing I am looking forward to and while it may set your heart ablaze with righteous indignation , I'll discuss this or any other issue or aspect of the game as I see fit - especially in a thread called "Disappointed with Reach?". Sorry...



As usual YMMY, IMO, blah, blah, blah...

 

[spartan062]

I wish the grenades were a little weaker.

You do realize that they are about the size of a grapefruit. . .



And The DMR and MA37 are really just re-imaginings of the BR and MA5C. Much like the MA5C was a "re-imagining" of the MA5B. And the armor abilities? They are probably to make the Spartan IIIs more survivable, as the IIs pretty much already seem to not NEED armor lock and such. and the IIIs are likely lighter and IIs are probably way too heavy to use jet packs.



This stuff could also have been prototypes that were destroyed by the Covenant or the enactment of the Cole Protocol.



Still feels like Halo.

 

[DogWizard]

I will say that "Invasion" is about the most amazing game variant I've seen. It's fun, fast-paced, and finally makes great use of the Spartan vs. Elite throwdown. Invasion by itself is almost worth dealing with my issues with the game! If nothing else, the different abilities can make a true distinction between how a Spartan plays vs. how an Elite plays - previously the Elites just always seemed like Spartans dressing up for Haloween. Great job on that aspect, Bungie!

 

[SchizophrenicMC]

Hey, DogWizard, I wanna take our little debate to PMs, so I can explain my standing, civilly, without involving the public eye. Do you think you could clear a PM from your box so that I could do that?

 

[RadioactiveMicrobe]

Just some weapon and grenade tweaks, and this will be awesome.



Theres some other stuff with that acting up with th radar, but they said they're fixing that.

 

[Broz]

First Halo game I've really looked forward to, the design has jumped several levels in depth and quality and it's nice to see a more developed game with some more options.

 

[DogWizard]

Hey, DogWizard, I wanna take our little debate to PMs, so I can explain my standing, civilly, without involving the public eye. Do you think you could clear a PM from your box so that I could do that?

While I appreciate your desire to avoid cluttering the forums, I'm not really sure what there is to debate or why it would need to be private but my PM box does have plenty of space available. As long as everything stays civil I don't see any reason why we couldn't have a discussion about it right here - this is a Halo discussion board after all...



I will say that I've pretty much said my piece and there is a limited amount of time and energy I will spend debating theoretical, opinion-based conclusions derived from a BETA test of an upcoming video game - even if that game is Halo.



Opposing viewpoints are always welcome and I'm happy to debate specific aspects or observations but only to a point - you know what they say about arguing on the internet...

 

[HeavyGunner]

I think something extremely important to keep in mind when dealing with the game is this: Halo canon should not be an excuse for changes in sandbox development. And likewise, if Bungie wants to include elements from other known FPS franchises, they've got to balanced effectively.



SchizophrenicMC: While I agree that I love Halo lore, ( A lot, believe me ) it should never have to be used to justify a weapon's inclusion, or exclusion from a paticular game. Personally, it doesn't matter to me if the MA37 was Army or Navy issue, or if it was around in a paticular year, what's truly important to me is it's function in gameplay. And this goes for every other weapon as well. I'm in no way discrediting your points, but I want to make sure that you guys understand that a weapon's role in Halo Reach should revolve around gameplay balance and effectiveness, not if it's placement is in line with the Halo bible. Of course, this, like everything else comes the the "IMO" disclaimer.



Dogwizard: We are all entitled to our own opinions. I think the reason people disagree with you is because you, being a hardcore Halo fan, are voicing a seemingly negative opinion. In reality, your thoughts are just as important as anybody else's, whether Bungie employee, 405th junkie, or Forgehub fan. On a completely personal note, I am somewhat taking your side in this, not in regard to beta gameplay (I haven't played yet) but in regard to Bungie's blantant inclusion of long treasured Fps elements. I know blatant is a strong word, but you guys have to know how many references Bungie has made to Reach including tidbits from "other franchises". I saw at least one in today's "Reach Survival Guide" post on the blog. While I am personally excited about this, I can understand how you're not. If I had been onboard with CE from day one, I would probably have similar concerns.



Overall, we've all gotta agree that Halo is one Crazy Sausage! It means so many different things to different people. This is definitely one situation where we've all got to agree to disagree at times.

 

[Nerfguy3million]

I am Not disappointed with reach!



On the UP side:



The gernades are AWSOME tactical nukes...



The Sprint is Awsome...



The armorlock is MY BFF...



The invisibility is deadly with a needler...



The jetpack... well... its a jetpack...



DMR = "minni death star"



The pistol is the powerful scoped awsomeness that halo1 IS, with the quick fire that ODST Provides!



Evade is THE most awsome Loadout For an eliet... I Use it so much, You could call it abuse!



assassinations are the most SATISFING Way to kill your oponet...



ON the downside:



I can never live more than 20 secconds inside of a tank/wraith...



Invisibility could use NO radarjam, Or ALOT more randomness for the "BLEEPS" its just too easy to find the person...



In my oppinon with my skill, The jetpacks just make people/me a sitting flying target... But if your good at it.. Go for it!



ON a Different note:



All of the armorlocks CAN be completely devistateing when you know how to use them...



Sprint, Used in cases that you need extra speed, or to assasinate people...



Armorlock, A good example of useing it is to stop Intuder's Volly of gernades killing you when defending a flag.

A bad example would be Useing it when your getting your but kicked by ONE other player... They will wait for you to stop... and when you do.. they will get you...



Invisiblility, Do as the ninjas do... Go in and assasinate a dude when they are buisy with other matters... or use it to cover your team as they go in to atack!!



Jetpacks, As I believe, They Make you a FLYING NINJA!







Thus concludes my 2cents...



Enjoy!

HARR18

 

[Krallis]

The beta feels totally different to other halo's.

It feels more solid and a bit stiffer.

I like the abilities as it gives you more of a choice in the way to play.

As for the loadouts the only place ive noticed where they make a difference is in invasion.

The new guns are cool however the only thing ive noticed is that games can be slightly unbalanced when its covvy vs spartans, as every match ive played as a spartan weve just been spammed with needlers or swords.





Actually, I hate the new look of the elites, their jaw is too wide and the armour looks like its made of crepe paper. And the helmet is too flat.

 

[xalener]

Staten wrote it, it's Halo cannon. End of story.



In fact, Joe himself said that if a new game does something that conflicts with old cannon, the new game is the now the official cannon.



I'm sure the wide elite jaw is due to the fact that the mouths are prepetually open.. That being said, I like this design a lot more than Halo 3's. It's sillouette is a lot like Halo CE's. The only thing I don't like are that the legs are too narrow. The head is huge for gameplay reasons, so I can't complain there.







Isn't it weird that the moment They decided to make elites and spartans play differently, they became more balanced with each other? I mean, no more f***ed up hitboxes or animations and stuff like that.



Oh well I've been Halo fan since it was first announced for the xbox in 2000. I never got the game I excpected from that trailer until just now it feels like.

 

[Krallis]

I love halo. The original was the first FPS I ever played on the first ever console I ever owned (xbox), and ive been a fan of the series since.

Reach Is fairly awesome although I do feel that they couldve made the spaces between the armour plates less vast and got a different design for it rather than that generic nanosuit style. I dont mind the head if it makes gameplay balanced but it would be nice for it to be a little less flat.



I see what you mean about the legs aswell they look stupidly thin, especially in this picture.



http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/_...o/images/2/29/Halo_Reach_Biped_Comparison.png

 

[nate98]

What I really didn`t like about reach was that the elites are so tall



and their head and torso are so big and fat



while their legs and feet are so thin and long.



well that`s what I think,as for the spartans



they look alright but a little weird in some places.

 

[Krallis]

Whats weird about the spartans.

I think the new spartan III's look pretty awesome.

 

[Goosebot 5000]

REMEMBER ITS JUST THE BETA!



If you dont like some stuff from Reach, Its just as easy as posting a topic in the bungie forums.

i agree. its still just a demo, but they WANT you to post the problems you have with it.



also, you have to keep in mind that this isnt just the next halo. this is the halo that theyve wanted to make from the beginning. so if its missing some of the characteristics or bells and whistles from the other halo games, its because they were changed. not this one.



personally, im neutral about the game. i like some of the additions / changes, but dislike others. i do miss my BR, but OH MY GAWD that plasma grenade launcher is TOO cool. whats the highest kill announcement you guys have seen? i havent really seen more than a triple kill yet and im interested to see if there are new ones.

 

[Lonewolf Armorer]

I like and dislike the beta. For the most part the game play is fun, but as someone how has played/read all things Halo this is not Halo. Before anyone says that it is. Read Ghost of Onyx. All Spartan III's are killed in their missions the only two that weren't became trainers on Onyx. By this cannon Noble team can cannot and doesn't exist. Jorge being the exception but seeing how there where no Spartan II's ground side when the Covies attacked he would have been with the rest of the Spartan II's is space. I'm all for a new Halo game but don't make things up and tell me it's Halo when there are nine years worth of cannon saying that it's not.



The abilities suck they are nothing more than time wasters.



Armorlock - I have walked up and beat down people while they were in armorlock.

Sprint - You're a highly trained killing machine, but we forgot to teach you to run here's a program for your suit.

Evade - Same as Sprint should be natural not an ability.

Jetpack - To hit and miss. What's up with suicide upon landing for a high drop, when you can jump for just as high and live.

Invisibility - Alright. Why everything else gets muted when activated is stupid. Like other said radar jam stupid add on. Certain weapons should cancel out invisibility (plasma sword/needler/hammer)they emit their own light. Or they should at least drain the power faster.



Invasion was fun till everyone whined and got the DMR removed from the Spartans, how about they take the needler away from the elites.



If you are offended don't be, this is my Opinion, just like you have yours.

 

[S1l3nt V1p3r]

I like and dislike the beta. For the most part the game play is fun, but as someone how has played/read all things Halo this is not Halo. Before anyone says that it is. Read Ghost of Onyx. All Spartan III's are killed in their missions the only two that weren't became trainers on Onyx. By this cannon Noble team can cannot and doesn't exist. Jorge being the exception but seeing how there where no Spartan II's ground side when the Covies attacked he would have been with the rest of the Spartan II's is space. I'm all for a new Halo game but don't make things up and tell me it's Halo when there are nine years worth of cannon saying that it's not.



The abilities suck they are nothing more than time wasters.



Armorlock - I have walked up and beat down people while they were in armorlock.

Sprint - You're a highly trained killing machine, but we forgot to teach you to run here's a program for your suit.

Evade - Same as Sprint should be natural not an ability.

Jetpack - To hit and miss. What's up with suicide upon landing for a high drop, when you can jump for just as high and live.

Invisibility - Alright. Why everything else gets muted when activated is stupid. Like other said radar jam stupid add on. Certain weapons should cancel out invisibility (plasma sword/needler/hammer)they emit their own light. Or they should at least drain the power faster.



Invasion was fun till everyone whined and got the DMR removed from the Spartans, how about they take the needler away from the elites.



If you are offended don't be, this is my Opinion, just like you have yours.

You are wrong at many different points.



Not all the Spartan III's were sent out on suicide missions. Mendez and Kurt covertly reassigned several SIII's to the Army, where they remained hidden from Ackerson. What you read in Onyx is secondary Canon, what the game says comes first.



As for Jorge, there were SII's on the ground when the Covenant attacked. They were assigned to defend the Generators for the MAC stations in orbit, which they failed at and Reach was lost to Covenant hands. But I believe Jorge was assigned to NOBLE several years before the Covenant found Reach, possibly around the same time NOBLE was formed.





And I completely disagree with your opinions about the Armor abilities. When used propperly, they can turn the tide or give you that little extra you need. I have found myself in a scenario where I needed to sprint, only to find I have chosen Armor Lock instead. Frustrating? Yes, but make the best of it. All Armor abilities are useful in their respective roles.

 

[Boba Fett]

they are overriding cannon with this game. I honestly don;t see the problem. the abilities add to the dimesnion of gameplay, they're trying to increase us of tactics as opposed to going crazy killing stuff.

 

[Lonewolf Armorer]

Please refrain for saying that someone is wrong and not giving factually reasons as to why(wiki is not factual). All Spartan III's were sent on suicide missions that was the whole purpose of the project. Highly train disposable soldiers that could survive staggering odds long enough to complete their mission.

As for Jorge, there were SII's on the ground when the Covenant attacked. They were assigned to defend the Generators for the MAC stations in orbit, which they failed at and Reach was lost to Covenant hands. But I believe Jorge was assigned to NOBLE several years before the Covenant found Reach, possibly around the same time NOBLE was formed.

All Spartan II's were in space when the Covenant attacked Reach. They divided up into to teams, Master Chiefs team was sent to destroy a nav core. The rest loaded up into pelicans and attempted to land planet side but the Coventant shot them out of the sky adding several to the MIA list. The rest divided again to handle different objectives.



New abilities don't improve tactics, tactics are learned over tested over years this is a FPS video game tactics do not apply.

 

[penutbuttrbandt]

I think reach is a breath of fresh air, not like all the other halo games to me is a great thing. I am a big fan of CE, I liked halo 2 and 3, but I prefer ODST's campaign to the latter. I am not huge into the multiplayer, I am more for the story and lore of halo. I think the game will be amazing with a few weapon tweaks. I like the direction the game is going. Cant wait until fall.