Do You Believe In Ghosts?
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damasterchief
Member
man the video in the very first post the one in the Washington dc memorial reminds me of one i saw there during my Washington dc trip with my school okay anyways heres what happened i was in the memorial just walking along with my group and i saw something i could see through but i could make out a gun on its back and a uniform and it was walking along the path we were abought to cross so i told my friends to look over. there they were shocked (so was i ) and the ghost turned and and saluted to us! and keeped walking.
leegrisham
Well-Known Member
I just remembered this since damasterchief was talking about soilders.
My family and I have made several pilgrimages to Gettysburg - my dad was a huge civil war buff and Gettysburg and surrounding areas are like Mecca for those people.
I remember buying a few 'Ghost of Gettysburg' VHSs (yeah thats how long ago it was) and even going on a 'Ghost of Gettysburg' tour ran of course by the same group who made the videos. It was a lot of fun, but there was nothing supernatural about any of it. In fact a room where it was said that NO picture would turn out correctly because of 'spirits' did not inhibit my camera from snapping perfect pics.
Anyway, like I said in the beginning of this topic ghost are fun but not real.
My family and I have made several pilgrimages to Gettysburg - my dad was a huge civil war buff and Gettysburg and surrounding areas are like Mecca for those people.
I remember buying a few 'Ghost of Gettysburg' VHSs (yeah thats how long ago it was) and even going on a 'Ghost of Gettysburg' tour ran of course by the same group who made the videos. It was a lot of fun, but there was nothing supernatural about any of it. In fact a room where it was said that NO picture would turn out correctly because of 'spirits' did not inhibit my camera from snapping perfect pics.
Anyway, like I said in the beginning of this topic ghost are fun but not real.
PillowFire
Member
BlacRoseImmortal said:Wicca is a wonderful religion and I suport it more than anything. I have the ability to transfer my being into a complete state of Nirvana and peace. If youve never experiences a spiritual 'high' before, your missing out. I think i'll be putting myself into another state of nothingness right now actually
This entire thread is full of people who, I am sorry, are completely lacking in common sense. For starters, let me give everyone here a bit of a lesson on the human mind.
Meditation is a state of mind in which the mind itself is not focused on anything at all. It is, in essence, a clearing of the mind. Thats it, that is all the meditation is. In this state, you eventually begin to lose your sense of being. Your mind begins to loose it's virtual boundary, and you feel like you are one with everything. This is a simple illusion, as your mind has a set boundary for your, "Awarness", which stays firmly to your physical body. This boundary is able to be modified by the brain at will to encompase anything that you may be holding. For example, if you play a video game, and you are focused on the game, then your mind may extend the virtual boundary to your game controller and therefore allow for less bulkyness and more natural movement. Effectivally enhancing your ability to function.
The human mind as a whole is a very complex organic machine. The theory of a, "Soul", as prescribed by religion is what science knows to be, "conscience". Conscience is something which not much is know about. For example, we know a lot about the workings of the brain, what area's of the brain are responsible for which aspect of conscience. Yet it is unclear to us how and at what point conscience comes about. If the brain is just one complex machine that gives the illusion of a conscience when in reality it is just the result of an incredibly advanced, "computer", so to speak, then this gives rise to the theory that all humans are just zombies (not the flesh eating ones). The term zombie refers to one who thinks they are conscience, who gives the illusion of conscience, but who is not really conscience. We have no way of knowing if this is true.
However, one thing that religion persistantly gets wrong is what the definition of a soul is. There is no such thing as a soul. As I have explained, it is the sense of self that comes about from a sufficiently advanced organism such as a human being. Our brains are so developed that we are able to stop and realise that we are able to think. We are able to identify this, ask questions, think rationally; something animals cannot do. Ultimately, we ask the question of what happens when we die. We come to have the illusion that we have something called a Soul when it is really just the conscience, the awareness of a self which comes about from a highly evolved brain.
This conscience is only able to survive and persist so long as the brain is there. However, science does not know for sure what a conscience really is, and how it comes about. It could be possible that it is a seperate thing, indeed a Soul that exists in a quantum state or in a seperate universe and that the body and brain as simply a means of interacting with this world. It could also be that the brain is simply a highly advanced organic computer running a simulation know as the self, and that our life experience shapes this highly advanced organic computer and establishes rules which guide the simulation: this being know as our percieved reality.
However, to jump to the conclusion that religion jumps to, is extremely illogical. Religion as a whole has no proof for any of it's claims, and if one religion claims to be right, what's stopping another from being right? We have no way of knowing at present what happens when we die, what a conscience is, or any of these things, so to turn to religion is to give up and blindly accept something irrational as an answer simply because it's an answer.
Religion, however, opens up more questions than it answers. For example: How did God come to exist? What came before God? In an orderly universe nothing happens without reason. There must always be an input/output relationship or things cease to make sense and reality is twisted and warped. How can God simply appear out of thin air one day and go on to establish the workings of the Universe as a whole? How can this supreme being, known as the output, come about without any sort of input? Religion has no answer to this, and the Universe and fabric of it remains as infinite as it was. The universe is so vast, we have no way of knowing what it holds for us in the future. We know only a small chunk of the infinite information out there. So many things are unexplained as we are of yet too primitive to even begin to comprehend them. So to jump to the conclusion that ghosts are around us without any sort of backing or proof or even an inkling of a clue as to what is really going on, is simply narrow-minded and ignorant.
Everything has an explanation. Everything has a reason for existance. God is not exempt from this basic truth.
Religion came about a very long time ago, as a means for primitive man to explain the world around him. Primitive Man attributed rain, the elements, everything to a supreme being because he did not know better. Everything religion teaches is slowly being disproven or shown for what it really is. For example, the church believed that God really was a physical being that lived in the sky. This notion was disproven when we sent manned and unmanned vehicles into space and beyond.
They thought the Earth was flat. They thought that weather was attributed to God. All of these things now known in detail today and being common knowledge, they attributed to God.
One claims there to be a god, defines what others must do. Others fall in line like sheep. This is interesting because it is in keeping with the natural principle of a leader and followers. Every creature on this planet has instinctive knowledge, programmed into it's very genetic structure, to fall in line. Some creatures are ment as leaders, others as followers.
Humans are the same. Our highly evolved minds allow us to suppress many instincts. Yet they are always there, working subconsciencely and driving us to do the things we do. They act as the basic input, altered, allowed, over-ridden by the various rules and concepts learned during the course of our Life. This happens entirely on a subconscience level, and what we attribute to our wanting of free will, is very much an action strongly influenced by our subconscience brain, our instincts, our learned concepts.
Religion is no different. As I recall, a gene was recently discovered that could be responsible for religion as a whole. A person, at a certain point, becomes unable to follow rational thinking, and under the right conditions, will fall in line with any sort of religious thinking, or propoganda. This is how fanatical muslims come about, how fanatical religious worshippers come about, how people who do bad things come about. Human beings whom are exposed to certain conditions which mold their understanding and engrave certain beliefs. This is why religion is so difficult to argue with. You cannot argue with a person who's mind has been engraved with certain notions. A person, with the right conditions and influence, will stop listening to logic and reason no matter how much it outright disproves whatever deep-seated notions they may have, because it goes against what they know to be their reality.
The mind can also be disrupted. A person who seems pure and innocent who then goes on to kill in the most vile of ways may likely have a problem with ther mind. A disruption of the simulation which breaks down certain aspects of the mind. In this way of thinking, it is easy to explain why people can be nice one day, and then go on to kill horribly after something horrific happens to them. If a sufficiently powerful event occurs, it can break down deep-rooted mental barriors, and people can come to do things they would not ordinarily do. Their basic mental barriors are broken down, they have no way of overriding actions which they would have previously overriden. This is also in keeping with how we understand things to operate. The human mind is a constantly learning self aware organic machine. It's primary purpose, driven by it's primary instinct (the meaning of life in other words) is the survival of the individual second, the survival of the species first. Human beings are advanced to a point that a more complex interaction occurs than just that basic one, which is very much observable in creatures such as insects. Basic drones with no sense of self who are driven purely by instincts and no learned behaviour otherwise from Birth to Death.
What we call morals, are really just deep-rooted rules which the mind learns, some are genetically there from birth, such as a mother's willingness to sacrifice herself for her child-something done for the survival of the species-some are learned, such as, "It's wrong to steal from others". Morals have nothing to do with religion and everything to do with a persons situation and factors which guide the development of their, "reality".
Now, to tie everything together. The point is that "ghosts and Demons", are all inventions of the human mind. Inventions which come about from highly complex processess and genetic factors beyond our control as of this time. Just like religion, they are illogical and yet highly valued in our society because of their roots in our very genetic make-up. Some people are able to resist this with logic, and the more advanced a person trains their mind to be, the more they are able to think on a higher level and repel these types of notions. The average joe is a christian, and possibly believes in ghosts. Some may have rare, unexplained experiences which they attribute to ghosts, and use their religion to explain. They then accept this as fact because their religion has an answer. However, they never go on to ask the validity of their claims, or whether it makes sense. This is the problem. Ask yourself how many factors there are that can possibly account for what we see and cannot explain. Science is limited right now, in the grand scheme of things. We are making discoveries every day, and it is only a matter of time until we explain things. Until then, do not fall into the typical line of thought. Never accept ghosts and religion as an answer when there is always the possiblity of a scientific and rational explanation, which there always is.
Religion is simply one explanation, one which can be disected and broken down and explained away with ease. Ghosts, bigfoot, loch ness monster, all of it can be disected and explained away with logic and reasoning the same way.
The videos shown, for example. What do we know about them? Nothing. We know nothing and yet the very author of this thread chooses to believe them without any knowledge of their origin. For example, when were these video's taken? who took them? What angle where they taken at? What were the atmospheric conditions? What was the temperature? What were all of the involved factors? Was there any sort of decieving going on?
The most simple question, however: How do we know they weren't faked?
For those claiming to have experiences: How do I know you're telling the truth? How do I know you did not mis-interpret what you saw? How do I know your memory is correct? How do I know you have no problems with your mind which warp or twist what happened? How do you know what you saw couldn't simply be mistaken for something else?
No matter how realistic it seems, there is always an explanation. Dig deeper and never assume anything. For assumptions lead to more assumptions, and if assumptions are wrong, they mess up the entire result.
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Ok I haven't followed this thread very much, but a few posts here bother me.
Now, I'm going to say it again for the last time.
Keep this about your belief in ghosts or lack there of. Share experiences or lack there of, but do not try to discount any one persons account or belief from this point on or this thread is getting closed.
I know it's hard to not support your choice without stating what else you believe in, but you won't change what someone believes in with one or even a million posts so don't even try.
As for myself, I believe in ghosts/spirits. I'm not saying anything more than that as I don't feel the need to defend that statement.
Now, I'm going to say it again for the last time.
Keep this about your belief in ghosts or lack there of. Share experiences or lack there of, but do not try to discount any one persons account or belief from this point on or this thread is getting closed.
I know it's hard to not support your choice without stating what else you believe in, but you won't change what someone believes in with one or even a million posts so don't even try.
As for myself, I believe in ghosts/spirits. I'm not saying anything more than that as I don't feel the need to defend that statement.
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Andrew5555543
New Member
Exactly, I belive that if you truly belive in something, You won't make others belive in it
DON"T SHOVE IT DOWN THEIR THROATS
DON"T SHOVE IT DOWN THEIR THROATS
xalener
Well-Known Member
23Magnum said:
You're kinda overreacting, man. No one said anything good or bad about religion here....except mabye one. But it's too damn big for anyone to bother to read, or care about...
Besides, I've always thought of ghosts as really being minds. Disembodied minds. chemicals escaped from a decaying brain, eternally (or just very slowly) combusting. There are a lot of holes in this theory, but I don't care. It sounds good enough for me...
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I don't believe anything I've seen on film, sorry ghosthunters especially (yeah it's a good effort, but I've never been convinced and I find the people really annoying) but I have had my own share of experiences (only about 2-3 but they have enough backstory that they don't warrent going into). On top of that, my grandfather was the police comissioner in an academy in zambia, and stories you will hear border on plain insanity, and I've never known my grandfather to exagerate on anything. Tryng to arrest a witchdoctor he saw one of his officers get dragged across the floor by a wooden stick the witchdoctor had been wielding. There's more to this world then meets the eye, but I believe that ghosts are clever enough to avoid cameras, and when they do appear, I generally believe they arn't as fascinated by flickering lights as people seem to think.
BlacRoseImmortal
Well-Known Member
Volkov, I'm very interested to hear the whole story about the witchdoctor. Theyz crayeh!
master chief403
Jr Member
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!...AHHH!...wow and i just the first part and i gave up on it...that is becuse i just watch some movie about ghost and stuff so if there realy witch i already now they is one thing to say to them and im not trying to be funny or insulting...,"Don't hurt me!!!!!!!!!!please"
Over reacting huh? Really, that's what you think? Well I'll say this then, you can go ahead and think that, but if I had over reacted, this thread would have been closed by now. I was just making sure the topic didn't stray like it was about to when I made that first post.xalener said:
Now as far as your theory, it's not so far fetched. Your theory sort of coincides with the theory that death, or "the afterlife", is just another form of evolution. Many believe this to be true so you're not alone.
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BlacRoseImmortal said:
basically my grandfather tends to be a bit tight lipped about it all, the stick one is the one that obviously bugged him the most and creeped him out. They went to break up meeting that was getting out of hand, and a witchdoctor there was not giving up and was wielding a stick, one of the officers eventually got it from him and proceeded to be dragged 20 feet by it before letting it go, it stopped and was recovered and discarded later with no further incidents as far as he knows. Then there was the typical witchdoctors saying people were going to die and they would a few days later, although my grandfather always thought they died through sheer fear since the believed the witchdoctors so much, in fact I believe there were a few cases of suicide to avoid whatever horrible fate the witchdoctor had supposedly foreseen for them. Think there was another one there about turning a stick into a snake and back a few times, but there's probably a logical explanation, I think modern day magicians can do that one.. so it's not all that shocking. I'll have to ask him for some more details, he lives in england now so I don't get to talk to him much. there were some other wierd ones, but he doesn't like to talk about them much, I think they were sort of stressful when your tryng to be a police commissioner and uphold the law but there are some things you just can't understand or deal with.
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ChaosSpartan
New Member
I live in an OLD OLD OLD farm house that was built in the late 1800's. It's been renovated once I believe...but there is just something here that isn't quite right. There's dark shadows in certain places in the house that just give you that feeling that something is there watching...sometimes you'll hear footsteps in the hallway...and other times you'll feel a force like cold wind pushing against you. It's like a really uncomfortable over-bearing presence that just makes you want to get up and leave the room or leave the house for a bit.
It messed me up a lot when I was a kid...but there is SERIOUSLY something in this house....
It doesn't bother me so much now since I have Seals on my bedroom door [I'm Buddhist] and I leave an offering of milk and rice outside when things have been a little TOO "active."
As for movies...some aren't so far fetched and others are WAY over exaggerating the whole concept which kinda ruins it for people who have had or are having real experiences.
It messed me up a lot when I was a kid...but there is SERIOUSLY something in this house....
It doesn't bother me so much now since I have Seals on my bedroom door [I'm Buddhist] and I leave an offering of milk and rice outside when things have been a little TOO "active."
As for movies...some aren't so far fetched and others are WAY over exaggerating the whole concept which kinda ruins it for people who have had or are having real experiences.
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BlacRoseImmortal
Well-Known Member
I bless my areas of the house every now and then (usually bi-yearly) with salt and blessed water, and I burn sage and pass the smoke throughout the house.
I have a spirit house watching over my front door adn thai spirit bells watching the back. i also have a North pointing pentagon in my room for extra protection :]
I have a spirit house watching over my front door adn thai spirit bells watching the back. i also have a North pointing pentagon in my room for extra protection :]
shadow8136
Well-Known Member
I do believe in ghosts since my friend's mother is a physic and she has been studying in supernatural happenings for over 15 years.
So me and my friend and I used to go in to the cemetery close by and used a Ouji Board that we had got from my friend's mother.
Suddenly the Arrow flys out of control......then we freak out and run.
Came back in a few minutes, the Ouji Board was ripped up and torn across the whole cemetery
So me and my friend and I used to go in to the cemetery close by and used a Ouji Board that we had got from my friend's mother.
Suddenly the Arrow flys out of control......then we freak out and run.
Came back in a few minutes, the Ouji Board was ripped up and torn across the whole cemetery
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