Props Fully Functional Ammo Counters/Effects Modules

[silvercookie]

I work on alot of Arcade guns at my job, and they use a really simplistic magnetic solenoid for recoil, similar to the ones use in pinball machines for the flippers. These solenoids are attached to the top slide of the gun, so that the gun looks to be actually firing when you pull the trigger.

I intend to duplicate this system with my own prop weapons.. The cam idea is pretty interesting though. :not worthy:

are you talking about time crisis 3 and 4 sean?

those are one of the best arcade games made besides ghost.

 

[DogWizard]

Sean,
Do you by any chance have the manufacturer/model numbers of those solenoids? That's the direction that I was thinking about but everything I have found so far is either a massive industrial/automotive unit or a tiny robot/hobby solenoid.

Thanks!

 

[helios]

Then Build One! After all, a solinoid is just a coil of wire with a ferro-magnetic rod slipped inside (Think coilgun/MAC cannon). I was attempting to make a coilgun myself a while back, but it didn't really work. Needed a better/bigger coil.

 

[silvercookie]

@ dogwizard.

look online or egay for cheap paintball gun boards they have decently powerfull solenoids.

o and for other small electronics and such check out partsexpress.com

 

[DogWizard]

@ dogwizard.

look online or egay for cheap paintball gun boards they have decently powerfull solenoids.

o and for other small electronics and such check out partsexpress.com

Yeah - Parts Express is decent for cheap audio bits and pieces but they really only have one that could even be considered an outside contender... but that did remind me of Jameco. I have used them before but they completely slipped my mind. They look like they have some real possibilities...

I have been looking on Fleabay but I didn't think to tie it back to paintball - thanks for the suggestion...

Helios - I could build one but why reinvent the wheel? Especially if there is already an existing compact unit designed to fit in "prop" weapons and whose sole purpose is to simulate recoil. Sounds like the perfect solution to me...

 

[Sean Bradley]

Sean,
Do you by any chance have the manufacturer/model numbers of those solenoids? That's the direction that I was thinking about but everything I have found so far is either a massive industrial/automotive unit or a tiny robot/hobby solenoid.

Thanks!

Yep:

7: Item Number: PB09-0040-56
GUN SOLENOID FOR NAMCO POINT BLANK OR TIME CRISIS 1+ $97.49


8: Item Number: TF09-11690-00
TIME CRISIS 4 RECOIL SOLENOID TC4 1+ $59.50


Find them at Happ Controls: http://www.happcontrols.com/wp/search.p

 

[23Magnum]

Yep:

7: Item Number: PB09-0040-56
GUN SOLENOID FOR NAMCO POINT BLANK OR TIME CRISIS 1+ $97.49

8: Item Number: TF09-11690-00
TIME CRISIS 4 RECOIL SOLENOID TC4 1+ $59.50

Find them at Happ Controls: http://www.happcontrols.com/wp/search.p

Hey Sean, I'm just wondering, do those recoils guns need individual activations?(i.e. pull the trigger for each recoil action)

I took a look at the basic setup of the solenoid assembly of those two parts your refer to, I think as they didn't really have pictures for those two, but I found some other images while looking at some other products. The part I took a look at was #96-0452-00.

If they work as I think they do, timing could be an issue with using them for the full auto feel of the AR. I think adapting those for this purpose would be rather tough...doable, but tough. You would proably have to put at least two, maybe three, in series/parallel(?) and timed just right to get the rapid fire feel. This is something I don't know about for sure, but I think this would be the case, right? Let me know if I'm way off base.

These might be of better use in the BR for the burst fire feel, but that's just my opinion.

I'm just trying to help, but I don't want to be feeding you guys false information because I didn't fully understand how these things work. So don't take my word to heart.

-Magnum

 

[Vrogy]

If anyone knows ideal specs for a 'kick' solenoid, we can just track one down, instead of using an expensive arcade replacement.

Also, I wonder what the load required to trigger it is, and how complicated control circuitry would be..

For a semiauto that's just one round per squeeze, it seems like a simple switch would do the job.. as long as it was kept safetied when not in use.

 

[DogWizard]

Go Happs Go! I played around on the BYOAC forums a while back and ordered a bunch of Happs bits and pieces for my panel. Like an idiot I didn't think to check their site - thanks for the help and the lazy favor.

I did find a couple at Jameco last night but they all seem to top out at about 1.5 lbs. on the push or push/pull. A pull unit could be engineered to work but I think that it would only over-complicate everything. I think that if we can find the right unit, it's just going to be a case of board-level programming outputting a pulsed trigger voltage tripping a relay (for an additional 12V power supply)...

 

[Gokussj5okazu]

Go Happs Go! I played around on the BYOAC forums a while back and ordered a bunch of Happs bits and pieces for my panel. Like an idiot I didn't think to check their site - thanks for the help and the lazy favor.

I did find a couple at Jameco last night but they all seem to top out at about 1.5 lbs. on the push or push/pull. A pull unit could be engineered to work but I think that it would only over-complicate everything. I think that if we can find the right unit, it's just ging to be a case of board-level programming outputting a pulsed trigger voltage tripping a relay (for an additional 12V power supply)...

Fortunately my circuit is extremely expandable, so that part would be verry easy to accomplish. Just setup an astable 555 oscillator to power a transistor to power a relay, and tada, the solenoid only activates at the rate of fire when the trigger is pulled.

I don't know anything about those recoil solenoids or anything, so I'll leave that all up to ya'll. lol

 

[NOITAIDAR]

One thing that comes to mind when you're talking about a vibration, or recoil. Does anyone remember those scribble pens that had a motor in the top, attached to a weight, so that as the motor turned, the weight spun around the axis, thus vibrating the pen. Maybe this is enough vibration to simulate weapon fire?

 

[Walter Spase]

The vibration in your XBox controllers are of the same type, small electric motor with a non centered off balance weight attached.

If you spike controllers, and you happen to have some broken ones around, you could cannibalized those.

 

[D0096F]

The vibration in your XBox controllers are of the same type, small electric motor with a non centered off balance weight attached.

If you spike controllers, and you happen to have some broken ones around, you could cannibalized those.

They wouldn't get to torque fast enough for bursts, and anyway, the vibration isn't similar to recoil at all...

 

[Sean Bradley]

I believe these solenoids would need to be controlled, They aren't designed to automatically auto-fire. The Time Crisis guns are controlled, for either semi-auto, or automatic fire based on the gun you are using in the game. I wouldn't know how to trigger the desired results, my expertise isn't circuit design, but I'm sure of two things: These would work, and they're small enough to fit in the smallest guns in the Halo universe. They would be ideal for creating a 'real' recoil kick. They're powerful, in other words.

In my mind the ideal gun control board would do the following:

Control solenoids for semi-auto and automatic fire (maybe a dipswitch setting on the board?)
Control LED's times to fire with the simulated gunfire (for muzzle flash
Control a audio playback unit with recording and playback capacity (preferably with a input jack for quality recording)

with the optional Ammo counter... for guns like the AR and BR

And the trick is that all these need to operate simultaneously with the trigger pulls.

Other weapons would require custom units (like the carbine would need sequenced lighting instead of an ammo counter) to simulate the covenant display on the gun. Guns like the magnum and SMG's would only need recoil, sound, and muzzle led's, no counter.

Have you guys ever seen the control boards for pulse rifles?: http://www.aspeng.com/Pulse_Rifle.html

We need something just like that unit, but with the option to set the ammo counts for the various weapons..

 

[xobx]

How high is the numbers on the counter?

I have one that is ~17mm and it seems too be too small?

 

[Gokussj5okazu]

I believe these solenoids would need to be controlled, They aren't designed to automatically auto-fire. The Time Crisis guns are controlled, for either semi-auto, or automatic fire based on the gun you are using in the game. I wouldn't know how to trigger the desired results, my expertise isn't circuit design, but I'm sure of two things: These would work, and they're small enough to fit in the smallest guns in the Halo universe. They would be ideal for creating a 'real' recoil kick. They're powerful, in other words.

In my mind the ideal gun control board would do the following:

Control solenoids for semi-auto and automatic fire (maybe a dipswitch setting on the board?)
Control LED's times to fire with the simulated gunfire (for muzzle flash
Control a audio playback unit with recording and playback capacity (preferably with a input jack for quality recording)

with the optional Ammo counter... for guns like the AR and BR

And the trick is that all these need to operate simultaneously with the trigger pulls.

Other weapons would require custom units (like the carbine would need sequenced lighting instead of an ammo counter) to simulate the covenant display on the gun. Guns like the magnum and SMG's would only need recoil, sound, and muzzle led's, no counter.

Have you guys ever seen the control boards for pulse rifles?: http://www.aspeng.com/Pulse_Rifle.html

We need something just like that unit, but with the option to set the ammo counts for the various weapons..

Thanks for that link, Sean. Personally I hate their design, it's very rudimentary in electronics terms, but it works for them I suppose. Plus, talk about expensive. O_O Based on your list, here's what I've come up with in a little more detail, tell me what you think. I've primarily based this on a general consumer product, but it will easily expand to fit your model's needs.

Main Board:

1. Controls rate of fire of weapon.
2. Has outputs for muzzle/body(Covenant weapon) LEDs, included.
3. Has outputs for audio module.
4. Has controls and outputs for solenoids.
5. Requires "reloading" after set clip capacity is expired.

Counter Board:

1. Displays, in blue digits, ammo count in clip.
2. Strictly for BR55/MA5C.

Audio Board:

1. Plays a pre-recorded weapon sound when weapon is fired.
2. Adjustable volume.

With it all setup this way, you could combine any type of design. Muzzle Flash/Recoil, Recoil only, Audio only, Audio/Counter, it's completely expandable however you want it. This would help keep ALOT of the costs down on the main board as well.


Here's a second problem that I'd like to get you all's opinion on.

Size or Price?

I have two different ways to design the counting and main circuits. One way uses analog switching to accomplish everything. This is very cheap and reliable, but rather space consuming. The counting circuit would be about 4" x 5", too large for most of the small weapons, but very cheap.

The second way uses a micro controller processor. It'd easily be able to make the board 2" x 3", quite a bit smaller, and would easily fit into almost any weapon. Unfortunately this is about $20 more expensive.

How high is the numbers on the counter?

I have one that is ~17mm and it seems too be too small?

Ya, they're too small to be accurate enough. I had this problem too though. The best would be 1"/27mm displays, but I've been unable to find many someone who made blue ones this big. Those that did make them were extremely expensive.

 

[Garland]

Would it be possible for you to do both? Board size doesn't really matter for the Assault and Battle Rifles because they're big and boxy (cheap and reliable all the way!). However, I wouldn't mind spending extra to get the little one that'll fit in a small weapon.

 

[Gokussj5okazu]

I suppose I could make both if it was high desired among alot of people. The problem with using both versions is the massive amount of different parts it would take since both designs use almost entirely different parts.

 

[RandomMarine7]

I don't see any reason why a 4" x 5" board wouldn't fit into a BR or AR, granted the board can sit vertically. I personally want to go with the cheaper one because i know I can fit it into my rifle and see no reason to spend more money. But it probably depends on the rifle chances are people with a molded one (like Adam's) would want to go with a smaller board as to create less carpentry work.

 

[D0096F]

I don't see any reason why a 4" x 5" board wouldn't fit into a BR or AR, granted the board can sit vertically. I personally want to go with the cheaper one because i know I can fit it into my rifle and see no reason to spend more money. But it probably depends on the rifle chances are people with a molded one (like Adam's) would want to go with a smaller board as to create less carpentry work.

Right, I Know I need a small one for mine, since I have airsoft internals I'm synchronizing to his display taking upall the room.