"Help!" for: Papercraft or Pepakura

sik1276

Member
Because standard printer paper is too thin. It's really flimsy and would you trust putting something liquid on/in it?

I don't see how one might be able to use staples for pepping but tape, depends how you're strengthening it. Resin, I hear many people say, will melt the tape.
 

Assassin3698

Jr Member
You can't use regular paper because during the resin stage it will collapse under the weight of itself. And I wouldnt use staples I think it's just a bad idea, but knowing the forums and most of its members someone will give a sure answer on the staples and tape.

@sik1276- I posted this before I saw YOUR post.
 

ventrue

Well-Known Member
Ive heard every one saying that you cant use regular paper, why is that?

And can you use a stapler or tape instead of glue?
Regular paper is too flimsy. You want to make a model that can hold its own shape even when you work with it later on, and for that you need 150 g/m² at the very least. 220 to 250 g/m² works best, this will give you really sturdy results that can hold the added weight of resin and does not immediately get weak once it soaks some of it up.

Staples will not work because you can't staple threedimensional things together, especially with a bulky stapler. Try it out, you'll see :)

You can use tape, but it will limit your options later on. The cheapest, most widely used resin is polyester resin and it will make the sticky side of tape unsticky, collapsing your model in the process. If you want to use tape, you will have to use a different resin, which will be more expensive and possibly more dangerous and harder to work with.
 

Katsu

Well-Known Member
Even if you could staple, you would probably wreck your sanding apparatus when you grind through the paper (which can happen from time to time!)

And if you don't live in europe, those g/m numbers equate to 60lbs cardstock, or 110lbs cardstock in the States and maybe Canada.
 

ventrue

Well-Known Member
Even if you could staple, you would probably wreck your sanding apparatus when you grind through the paper (which can happen from time to time!)

And if you don't live in europe, those g/m numbers equate to 60lbs cardstock, or 110lbs cardstock in the States and maybe Canada.
No, 250 g/m² is way heavier than 110 lbs, it's literally over half a millimetre thick (here's a picture: http://s1033.photobucket.com/albums/a412/ventrue3000/405th/Mjolnir%20Mark%20VI/?action=view&current=08102010204.jpg).

Someone from the US sent me 110 lbs cardstock a while back and I did my own test to find out how heavy it really is, because all the converters on the internet give you different results. I came out somewhere at 160 g/m², if I remember correctly, but I wouldn't pep anything large with it, because it's too thin for my taste. I have no idea how you guys do it, you seem to love that stuff :-D

Good point with the sanding though, I didn't even think of that... :)
 

Katsu

Well-Known Member
I didn't mean to say that they were direct analogs, just that those are the two we use state-side. Not sure if they sent you REAL 110lbs, as some of them will say one thing but be something else. Real 110lbs has worked for everything I've messed with so far, including chest pieces, and it's served the rest of the American peppers here pretty well as well, but everyone has their own personal needs and preferences on cardstock, he may very well be better off with a super heavy duty cardstock!
 

ventrue

Well-Known Member
what about 110 gsm?
That's nothing more than a premium-weight office paper. Well suited to print job applications on, but not for Pepakura. Don't let the numbers fool you, units are quite important as well.

cause card is expensive
Let me be honest... If you are shocked by prices before you've even started pepping, then you should seriously learn about the whole process and look for all the products you need before you start. What you're looking at now in terms of price is virtually nothing.
 

TwiggyShip

New Member
Quick question: when pepping and hot-gluing, sometimes it's a struggle getting the folds and tabs to line up exactly right and here and there are little gaps and holes in between pieces (though not like it's riddled or anything). Does this effect the resin and bondo stages at all or will that sort itself out during that process?
 

Redshirt

Well-Known Member
Quick question: when pepping and hot-gluing, sometimes it's a struggle getting the folds and tabs to line up exactly right and here and there are little gaps and holes in between pieces (though not like it's riddled or anything). Does this effect the resin and bondo stages at all or will that sort itself out during that process?
Your pepped pieces need to be as tightly folded as possible. If you are getting gaps, your piece will not have the folded dimensions of the 3D model and subequent pieces will not join correctly, resulting in an asymmetic and warped piece because all pep errors are cumulative. In short, you'll have real trouble before you get to the resin and Bondo stage. That said, small holes are inevitable. I seal any holes and corners in mine with thick cyanoacrylate glue before resining or rondoing.

A bigger concern for you is the glue you are using. Hot glue has a high liklihood of being attacked by the resin and letting go resulting in your piece spontaneously dissasembling before your very eyes as you resin it. This is not a certainty, but I would test resin a scrap glue joint ASAP. Proven results are with glue sticks commonly found at your local stationers. These are usually PVA (polyvinyl alcohol) and consistently withstand the resin and bondo. The glue sticks also make thinner bonds than the hot glue, helping to eliminate the gaps you are having trouble with.

I hope all that was helpful.

Redshirt
 

TwiggyShip

New Member
Your pepped pieces need to be as tightly folded as possible. If you are getting gaps, your piece will not have the folded dimensions of the 3D model and subequent pieces will not join correctly, resulting in an asymmetic and warped piece because all pep errors are cumulative. In short, you'll have real trouble before you get to the resin and Bondo stage. That said, small holes are inevitable. I seal any holes and corners in mine with thick cyanoacrylate glue before resining or rondoing.

A bigger concern for you is the glue you are using. Hot glue has a high liklihood of being attacked by the resin and letting go resulting in your piece spontaneously dissasembling before your very eyes as you resin it. This is not a certainty, but I would test resin a scrap glue joint ASAP. Proven results are with glue sticks commonly found at your local stationers. These are usually PVA (polyvinyl alcohol) and consistently withstand the resin and bondo. The glue sticks also make thinner bonds than the hot glue, helping to eliminate the gaps you are having trouble with.

I hope all that was helpful.

Redshirt
Yeah, I wasn't talking huge gaps or anything, just tiny little holes here and there where something didn't quite match up. I've almost finished my third attempt at pepping a Mk V and there looks to be very little asymmetry. I probably shouldn't have said folds - I score all my folds nice and neat - as I was more talking about lining up the tabs spot on, but like I said there hasn't been any noticeable outcome so far.

Does it really effect it that bad? I've heard that hot glue is often the most recommended adhesive for this kind of thing and I am currently in contact with some 405th folks who have completed Mk V builds, who all recommended using hot glue, and they applied the resin and everything else just fine. I have also been considering trying The Hot Glue Method, as while I do have some resin I am slightly loathe to use it if a safer and commended option is at hand. Also, that tutorial then recommends applying resin on the exterior and, as an extra option, over the hot glue layer on the inside, so now I'm really confused...
 

Redshirt

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I wasn't talking huge gaps or anything, just tiny little holes here and there where something didn't quite match up. I've almost finished my third attempt at pepping a Mk V and there looks to be very little asymmetry. I probably shouldn't have said folds - I score all my folds nice and neat - as I was more talking about lining up the tabs spot on, but like I said there hasn't been any noticeable outcome so far.

Does it really effect it that bad? I've heard that hot glue is often the most recommended adhesive for this kind of thing and I am currently in contact with some 405th folks who have completed Mk V builds, who all recommended using hot glue, and they applied the resin and everything else just fine. I have also been considering trying The Hot Glue Method, as while I do have some resin I am slightly loathe to use it if a safer and commended option is at hand. Also, that tutorial then recommends applying resin on the exterior and, as an extra option, over the hot glue layer on the inside, so now I'm really confused...
Definitely didn't want to confuse you. The hot glue breaking down is not a given. I was recommending that you resin a sample before pressing on. Thick glue can lead to difficulty in getting the parts to seat together nicely, especially as it has a short working time. That's why I suggested the glue sticks. They make a thinner bond and give more working time as well. If all you are talking about are very small holes, then buy the gap-filling thick superglue at your local hobby shop and use it to seal holes before rondoing. I hope that clarifies my comments a little.

Redshirt
 
I personally use Duro brand superglue when pepping pieces. While on the expensive side, this glue dries quite quickly and starts out as practically water, so it is a very thin, very strong bond, and withstands resin work quite nicely. It's what I use, and it hasn't failed me once.
 

big4wheeler

Jr Member
Besides heavygunners all in one pack are there any other more recent pepakura packs? That thing is from a year ago :/ Not that its not helpful! It's just that alot of models can be created in a year...
 
On another note, really tiny holes in your pep pieces will be covered up by the resin coat on the outside of the piece on their own, so sometimes no work is necessary. It's for some of those holes that are actually noticeable that need patch work.
 

TwiggyShip

New Member
On another note, really tiny holes in your pep pieces will be covered up by the resin coat on the outside of the piece on their own, so sometimes no work is necessary. It's for some of those holes that are actually noticeable that need patch work.
Yeah, that's what I thought, they're really not that noticeable, just tiny little triangles where a tab didn't quite set right by a couple mm or so.
 

Katsu

Well-Known Member
Besides heavygunners all in one pack are there any other more recent pepakura packs? That thing is from a year ago :/ Not that its not helpful! It's just that alot of models can be created in a year...
http://405th.4shared.com
This is pretty much every file that can legally be posted in a single location. For me, 4shared's been a bit buggy lately, so when I navigate to sub folders I have to hit refresh each time or it shows up with no files within, beyond that it's a great resource.

Yeah, that's what I thought, they're really not that noticeable, just tiny little triangles where a tab didn't quite set right by a couple mm or so.
The problem is that it is indicative that the pieces weren't properly aligned when being built. This could ultimately not matter to the builder, but if you want absolute precision and perfection, it is a big deal. The cleaner the pep work, the easier the smoothing stage will be, as you won't have to do as much work to even out the warpings and lopsides created by misalignment, which won't be easily obvious until you've covered the piece in a layer of bondo. Sometimes those are imperceptible though, and you can go on your way with the piece, but when those warps are larger, poor pepping will make you very mad when you get to smoothing.
 
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