Resizing Weapons *slap On Forhead*

[Sean Anwalt]

Um, I have a thing to say about resizing weapons. It is not necessary. An MA-5 is going to be the same size for Pfc. Ryan as it is for S-117 Master Chief. Like, if I were to go up and grab an M-16 A2, and Rambo, (who is noticeably larger than I) were to also grab an M-16 A2, no matter where we got our respective weapons, they would still be the same size. So an MA-5 in the hands of master chief is still going to be the same legnth as it is when that same rifle is picked up by any infantry, ODST or other spartan. I don't mean to sound rude, if I am I sincerely apologize, but I think it would cut a load of time, energy aand effort on all our parts if we would realize that re-sizing weapons is kind of a silly endeavor. anyway, that's all I have to say, that's my 2 cents worth.



The weapons area all manufactured at the same factory, with similar weapons of the same kind. Whether they get issued to a spartan, an ODST, or a regular Joe Inanftryman, they would all be the same size.

 

[shmalofan]

I don't agree.



Not completely anyway.



when people resize Master chiefs armor that means they will also need to resize the weapon the intend to carry.



what your saying would be correct if we had people that were as tall as MC.

 

[Chevysrule]

I don't agree.



Not completely anyway.



when people resize Master chiefs armor that means they will also need to resize the weapon the intend to carry.



what your saying would be correct if we had people that were as tall as MC.

I must speak on the contrary to that. Not to argue or anything, but I just believe armercrazy is right on this one. I mean, an AR in the hands of a 6-foot Marine is still going to be the same size as an AR in the hands of a 7-foot Spartan. The basic weapons, AR, BR, SMG, Sniper Rifle, and Magnum, were made for normal foot soldiers before Spartans even existed. Therefore, they are pretty much at human scale already. However, things made specifically for Spartans, Elites, and Brutes (all much larger than a normal human), such as the Spartan Laser, Energy Sword, Brute Shot, and Gravity Hammer, all of which are scaled larger than a human can hold, usually will need to be scaled down, because they are just too big for a human to holad. The only reason for scaling down a human weapon that the Marines can hold in-game would be (1) if it just cannot be held by the user, or (2) purely aesthetic reasons.

 

[S1l3nt V1p3r]

Some weapons were scaled up for Spartan use, but they were still one size even then. All other weapons (Rifles, mostly) are the same size for Marines and spartans.

 

[Flyerfye]

A friend of mine, who is a little over 5 feet tall is working on a Master Chief costume (theoretically, she might have given up since I last talked to her). Does it make sense for her to have an AR that is built full size for a 7-foot "real scale" Chief? Of course not, that's just ridiculous, right? Let people do what they want. There's a line between accurate and silly.



If you are making a costume for a character that is the same height that you yourself are, then duh, it makes sense to have the props at the correct scale. But once you go outside of that range, resizing then becomes necessary to maintain proper proportion. And I'd go out and venture a guess that most people who make costumes here aren't quite the same height as your average Spartan. So then, having a full-size weapon would be LESS accurate in relation to the costume itself.

 

[bopx]

A friend of mine, who is a little over 5 feet tall is working on a Master Chief costume (theoretically, she might have given up since I last talked to her). Does it make sense for her to have an AR that is built full size for a 7-foot "real scale" Chief? Of course not, that's just ridiculous, right? Let people do what they want. There's a line between accurate and silly.



If you are making a costume for a character that is the same height that you yourself are, then duh, it makes sense to have the props at the correct scale. But once you go outside of that range, resizing then becomes necessary to maintain proper proportion. And I'd go out and venture a guess that most people who make costumes here aren't quite the same height as your average Spartan. So then, having a full-size weapon would be LESS accurate in relation to the costume itself.

I think his point is that the weapons aren't scaled to Master Chief size. Two people can wear two very different clothing sizes, but they can hold the same size gun. And the guns are made for normal sized people (I assume) except for, as Chevysrule said, the spartan lasers and such.



I'm probably around the same height as your friend, but if I go airsofting, I'm not gonna ask for a smaller gun.

 

[mkshane81]

This topic has been brought up before. I agree with everyone here. As chevy and viper mentioned, some specific weapons were indeed scaled up for intentional use by spartans only. However, if you look at the halo wiki, all of the weapons sizes are completely uniform. None of them are listed as "spartan size" and "marine size".



-Matt

 

[shmalofan]

I must speak on the contrary to that. Not to argue or anything, but I just believe armercrazy is right on this one. I mean, an AR in the hands of a 6-foot Marine is still going to be the same size as an AR in the hands of a 7-foot Spartan. The basic weapons, AR, BR, SMG, Sniper Rifle, and Magnum, were made for normal foot soldiers before Spartans even existed. Therefore, they are pretty much at human scale already. However, things made specifically for Spartans, Elites, and Brutes (all much larger than a normal human), such as the Spartan Laser, Energy Sword, Brute Shot, and Gravity Hammer, all of which are scaled larger than a human can hold, usually will need to be scaled down, because they are just too big for a human to holad. The only reason for scaling down a human weapon that the Marines can hold in-game would be (1) if it just cannot be held by the user, or (2) purely aesthetic reasons.

I still am not convinced.

(I also am not trying to argue. just trying to find out if my perspective is skewed)

A friend of mine, who is a little over 5 feet tall is working on a Master Chief costume (theoretically, she might have given up since I last talked to her). Does it make sense for her to have an AR that is built full size for a 7-foot "real scale" Chief? Of course not, that's just ridiculous, right? Let people do what they want. There's a line between accurate and silly.



If you are making a costume for a character that is the same height that you yourself are, then duh, it makes sense to have the props at the correct scale. But once you go outside of that range, resizing then becomes necessary to maintain proper proportion. And I'd go out and venture a guess that most people who make costumes here aren't quite the same height as your average Spartan. So then, having a full-size weapon would be LESS accurate in relation to the costume itself.

^^that makes more sense to me.





EXAMPLE:



Hypothetically speaking, lets say we have a 1 foot MC as compared to a 7 foot MC.

the 1 foot MC's rifle will be smaller than the 7 foot MC's rifle, correct?



now lets say we have a 6 foot MC, will his rifle not be a little smaller than the 7 foot MC's rifle?







Basically whenever you scale your armor you will need to scale your rifle also.





More examples:



recently i got a pair of replica pistols from thorssoli. they're scaled 1:1.



now if i had a marine costume and i picked up these pistols they would be the correct scale.



now if i had a MC costume and picked up those same pistols they would NOT be the correct scale.

(mind you i'm ~6 foot) the pistols would need to be scaled 6:7 to be correct scale for my 6:7 scaled MC costume.



Math: 7 X .86 = 6.02 (about 6)



because i had to scale my MC suit down to 6:7 i would also need to scale my rifle down to 6:7.





If you have ever worked with model trains and all they're scales you would better understand what I mean.







Hopefully that clears up any confusion.



if you have any questions/comments please feel free. (I'm always open to new info.)

 

[Chevysrule]

I see your point there, too, shmalofan. I guess the only real way to decide whether or not proportional scaling should be done is best said in Flyerfye's post:

[...] Let people do what they want. There's a line between accurate and silly. [...]

 

[juliet76]

...The weapons area all manufactured at the same factory, with similar weapons of the same kind. Whether they get issued to a spartan, an ODST, or a regular Joe Inanftryman, they would all be the same size.

I totally agree... It's just not that simple and unfortunately not all of the weapons dimensions given are accurate to a real sized human being.



Here's an example- I did some research on the M90A (H3 shotgun) when I first joined up. I did a cutout of it to the bungie and Halopedia dimensions of 48.8'' and here's the result-

Slightly (yes that's sarcasm) oversized no matter who you are. Since that time the Halo encyclopedia has been released listing it's length as 45.3'' which would change it's overall scale considerably. But things such as the BR and AR lengths that are listed are pretty much spot on for a normal human and have in fact been made almost to such sizes by people here on this site such as Lee's BR and Adam's AR.



It all comes down to doing some research on the weapon of your choice (from more than one source) and making it to suit you.



So while I agree that if we were dealing with real world weapons they should be made to their correct sizes, we are in fact dealing with weapons and armour that exists inside a virtual environment and has to be adapted for the real world as we build it.

 

[SchizophrenicMC]

I say it's only legal to resize the M6, as it's the only weapon that's been canonically Spartan-Scaled. (Because big, sausagey Spartan hands can't fit in a human-sized hanguard)



I mean, the MA-5B looks pretty normal in a Marine's hands, but kinda small in the Chief's, in Halo CE. In fact, almost all human weapons look kinda small in his hands; at least not as big as they SHOULD be.



Really, rescaling is a point of preference, but from my perspective, they're one size fits all. That being said, I guess I don't cosplay a set Spartan or anything (Not that I've made a MJOLNIR. If I did, though, it'd be of my own character), so in theory, I could be a very short Spartan. (Kim Jong-11 :lol)



It just depends on your mindset.



But, it's easier, anyway, to leave it at 1:1 scale.

 

[shmalofan]

Yeah, i think it comes down to personal preference.



I'm planning on making a H3 BR.



I will probably make at 13:14 scale (which I'm pretty sure is halfway between 6:7 and 1:1)



That way it will look pretty good whether I'm wearing a spartan suit or a marine suit.



Any thoughts?

 

[Sean Anwalt]

Wow, I didn't want to make this topic arguably, just was an Idea that I had. If we were speaking about proportion, then I guess we'd need to scale the weapons, true, but I think it's a whole bucket-load easier to not re-scale the things at all, and leave the weapons the way they are, (Spartan lasers and so forth excluded.) I was simply making the point that the weapons are pretty much the same size, and for those of us going the ODST route, all the weapons are perfect the way they are. Heck, I'm working on 3 Mk VI suits this summer, and won't re-scale a single weapon.



and to quote Shmalofan:



I'm planning on making a H3 BR.



I will probably make at 13:14 scale (which I'm pretty sure is halfway between 6:7 and 1:1)



That way it will look pretty good whether I'm wearing a spartan suit or a marine suit.



Any thoughts?





lol, that's awesome. XD but there is a difference between scaling something down and being ridiculous, as was mentioned. the difference you're saving might not even be worth it. That's awesome, anyway, though. Good luck. remember to post pics!

 

[Boba Fett]

it all depends... Are you intending to make a prop of the weapon, or are you using it as an accessory to your costume? For the foremer, 1:1 scale, obviously. Lee Keegan's mauler is not too practical to carry around. But it looks great mounted on a wall or on display. For the costume, it is integral to the costume. Now, for marine costumes, You should probably have weapons (except those upscaled for Spartans) at 1:1 unless you're unusually short like me. But for a spartan, weapons need to be scaled down, because they are larger. Marines use the same weapons as spartans, but guns look a lot bigger in their hands. For spartans, it's hilarious to see the chief holding a single SMG. It's so small. Since we arn;t usually 7 feet tall, the weapon needs to be downscaled the same as you are "downscaled" from a spartan 2. Thus, you are in proportion with the weapon. My 2cents.

 

[alix965]

Hi everybody!

Just came upon this thread. The most interesting thing about the back and forth going on here is that I've been having the same argument in my head for the longest time. I decided to make the G variant of the m6 weapon system and before I scoured the internet for images, I printed up the diagram Lee Keegan used for his gun. I too made a cutout and I too was amazed by how outsized and impractical the dimensions of this 'handgun' were. I wrestled with the costuming scale versus digital 'real life' scale for a while and I couldn't reconcile the two until I read in Halopedia's trivia section of the M6 series that there are "UP-SIZED" versions of this particular gun in the Halo universe.



"Some variants of the M6 Series have been 'up-sized' to be used by SPARTAN-IIs. The 'up-sizing' factor is 117%, a reference to John-117. "



This statement made sense because this is the only human weapon that is designed with a full guard on the handle. If the smallest spartan were to remove his multi-layered armored glove, there would still be a couple of fingers hanging onto the extended magazine of the standard m6g. I would think that even a smart-linked, 2x scoped, 12.7 mm round spittin' firbreather still needs a stable platform to get on-target hits downrange. And a compromised grip surface would not do for an elite soldier such as a Spartan-III.



This was a huge relief for me because I'm a real stickler for accuracy and it covers both real world and game world discrepancies with this particular piece of weaponry. As far as all the other factory-churned, mass-produced non-spartan weapons of war, I think it's safe to say there is a STANDARD size that gets distributed to the troops regardless of class. I also made peace with the fact that if there's ever a question to the Halo canon, cross- referencing halo-wiki and halo-pedi is the way to go.

MY two cents

p.s. Great board you guys got going on here I'm glad to be a part of it.

 

[Sean Anwalt]

Also another note, just for kicks, I have a friend who's almost 7 foot tall. It's not that much taller than regular people, (by a WHOLE ton.....) and his hands aren't HUGE, either. Bigger, yes. HUGE, no. True, he don't work out 24/7, he's not ripped, but he's not HUGE, either.

 

[Col Keller]

Even in halo when a spartan gives a marine or ODST a weapon it is scaled down to their size, and scaled up to Master Chief's size when he holds it. This way everything looks right in game.



But statistically if a gun stats page says its 36 inch long then by gosh i will make it that long...

 

[shmalofan]

...

lol, that's awesome. XD but there is a difference between scaling something down and being ridiculous, as was mentioned. the difference you're saving might not even be worth it. That's awesome, anyway, though. Good luck. remember to post pics!

Well i have thought about that quiet a bit and the BR from halo 3 is 35.4 inches long.



but if i wanted to make it so i could use it with my spartan suit i would scale it down to the same scale i used on my suit. (6:7)



that would make it about 30 inches instead of 35. which isn't a huge difference but it does make a difference.





hence my idea of making it in the middle between the 2 scales. (13:14) or about 32.5 inches.







I'm not trying to take this topic over... i'm just stating things that will hopefully be useful to all the people that read this.



-shmalofan-

 

[AceHigh]

There's a lot of fail going on in this thread.



Here's a newsflash for people who don't quite get it. The target of this community is to construct COSTUMES, not to actually build the REAL HALOVERSE. I believe that 99% of people on this site construct their costume to fit themselves, not to fit anyone in the world. Thus, saying it's ridiculous to do the things that you personally want to do to make the costume look better is extremely rude and redundant. That includes scaling weapons, scaling armour, painting it neon pink or whatever. Costuming is 100% about aesthetics, believe it or not. Aesthetics of the costume builder's preference. If those aesthetic values happen to be to construct a weapon after exactly what Halopedia states, fine, but if they happen to be constructing a 10 inch AR to pretend you're André the giant, nobody should ever be bitching about that it's stupid, because it isn't.



If scaling a weapon because you think it would look better a little smaller or bigger is ridiculous, then the following things should also be considered ridiculous:



- Making a gun that don't fire. Regardless of who pics up an AR, it's going to fire.

- Making an armour from paper and resin. An armour would never be made from paper and resin as it would do jack $#!T to stop the projectile's the enemy propell towards you.

- Scaling a Noble Team build. Jorge was 7 feet and some inches tall, so his armour would be that height too.

- Making an armour or weapon for a 12 year old. Clearly, 12 year olds wouldn't be allowed firearms or presented with armours.

- Making an armour for someone overweight. Overweight people wouldn't be allowed in the army, right?

- Making a Covenant build. We're all human, and humans wouldn't be Covenants.



I hope I made my point.

 

[shmalofan]

You make a good point. but....



threads like this help new members that don't know all the stuff we know to stop making new topics like:



howe do i makE my gun teh riyt size??// :unsure



this is info that some people may find extremely useful.