"Help!" for: Fiberglassing, Resin, & Bondo

[Redshirt]

Hey guys i just finished glueing my spatarn helmet together. i dont exactly have the money for fiberglass and resin and was wondering how cardstock does with paper mache? i rlly dont want 4 days of work to collapse on itself

Just because you can't afford the preferred materials doesn't mean you can't achieve an excellent suit. You will have to make up for your lack of cash with patience. If by gluing together you mean pepakura, you are in a bit of a bind. The cardstock won't tolerate the weight of paper mache', especially when wet. That said, all is not lost. If you have anything to stiffen the cardstock, it will help. Do you have floor wax? Mop-N-Glo or Future? These acrylic finishes are water-based, but are not water soluble after they dry. I have used them to stiffen cardboard when I was deployed and had no access to resin or other traditional materials. You have to go very slow and only apply the floor wax to small areas at a time. The water-based wax will soften the card stock and cause it to warp or collapse under it's own weight. To do this right without resin will take several days per piece! After that process, your parts may be able to withstand paper mache'. Same rules apply, don't cover large areas at a time, and don't put it on too thick. If I were stuck in your shoes, I'd probably mix paper mache' and vinyl wall spackle. I had a similar product overseas from a craft shop. The spackle gives you fast dry and easy sanding. The paper mache' gives the paper fibers that add strength. Check my cardboard build thread for pics of how I used that material and PM if you have more questions. Good luck and welcome to the 405th.

Redshirt

 

[Molag Bal]

Hello all,

I am relatively new to all of this and I would like to clarify a few things.
I'll start off by saying im working on a halo 3 recon helmet pepakura model. (I did not make the pep file so props to the original creator)
Well I finally made it through the pep stage with my fingertips intact....^#!!% hot glue. :angry
Now i'm working on getting resin on the piece. Before starting I put on a long sleeve shirt, nitrile gloves, and an organic vapor respirator from 3M.
my work area is inside in a small bedroom with the door closed and a window open with a fan exhausting the fumes.

Now for the questions.......

1. when I was working the first time I noticed my skin get flush /hot on my face, and I did not smell anything through the respirator but my tongue felt tingly on top. Is this normal or do i need more ventilation?
2. I only did the top of the helmet before I quit upon noticing symptoms and I left it overnight to dry before re-entering the room. well the next morning it still smells but it feels solid and smooth to the touch. Will this go away and be safe to wear?
3. I knew this would happen but the bottom of the helmet warped slightly since the top was resined and not the bottom. Although it seems like an easy enough fix. All i'd need to do is bend it slightly and hold it in place once resined it should hold a fine shape. So the question is does anyone have an idea on how to do that? To give reference the bottom right needs to flex in toward the center slightly.

Thanks for reading and sorry for my rambling....

 

[drack]

Hey and welcome to 405th.

So to try to answer your questions.

1. The slightly burning face for me isn't unusual. I get exactly the same thing. I think its from the fumes getting into your pores due to the mask making you sweat where it comes in contact with your face. A good sign that your being effected by the fumes if your respirator isn't doing its job is a bad head ache. I realised my filters needed changing when I had it happen.
2. The smell takes a good few days to a week to go and even a while after it will still have a subtle smell to it. I have heard of people rubbing talc into the inside of their helmets to a. get rid of the smell and b. to dry out the resin a bit more.
3. For your warped bits if it is the card try some popsicle sticks glued inside (or similar supports) before you do your thin exterior resin coat. Also once a piece is resined you can heat gun to soften the resin which will enable you to bend the piece to where you want it.

One thing I would say is that it isn't such a good idea to do this in a room you will be sleeping in as the resin fumes stick to everything. I know its easy for me to say that because I have some where to do my hazardous stuff but I say it out of concern for your health.

I hope this has helped and I am sure the more experienced guys will add something to what I have said, or set anything I have said wrong right

 

[Carpathia]

Hey and welcome to 405th.

So to try to answer your questions.

1. The slightly burning face for me isn't unusual. I get exactly the same thing. I think its from the fumes getting into your pores due to the mask making you sweat where it comes in contact with your face. A good sign that your being effected by the fumes if your respirator isn't doing its job is a bad head ache. I realised my filters needed changing when I had it happen.
2. The smell takes a good few days to a week to go and even a while after it will still have a subtle smell to it. I have heard of people rubbing talc into the inside of their helmets to a. get rid of the smell and b. to dry out the resin a bit more.
3. For your warped bits if it is the card try some popsicle sticks glued inside (or similar supports) before you do your thin exterior resin coat. Also once a piece is resined you can heat gun to soften the resin which will enable you to bend the piece to where you want it.

One thing I would say is that it isn't such a good idea to do this in a room you will be sleeping in as the resin fumes stick to everything. I know its easy for me to say that because I have some where to do my hazardous stuff but I say it out of concern for your health.

I hope this has helped and I am sure the more experienced guys will add something to what I have said, or set anything I have said wrong right

I agree with everything here. While I have never had any skin irritations from the fumes of resin, if you're working in close quarters with it indoors, I can imagine your exposure would be more severe. As such, if it is at all possible, work outside with resin! The resin smell will linger for days, as Drack mentioned, and may even permeate into furniture or any cloth and linger further. If it is too cold outside to resin, get an airtight tub (like a Rubbermaid tub or something equivalent), resin outside, put the piece into the tub and bring it inside. The tub will be forever ruined for any other purpose since the smell WILL permeate into the plastic, but the smell will not leak outside of the tub into your home. Resin is potentially dangerous stuff and not worth risking your health. Take precautions seriously when working with it.

 

[Molag Bal]

Thanks for the advice guys!

I think I should clear up some misconceptions.
The room being used is not a normally used room in my household it is a spare bedroom with just a roughly built work table. As far as my reasons for indoor work carpathiavh99
you hit the nail on the head. Its was cold and rainy out yet warm and toasty inside. As far as the fumes I think I may have a solution, i went out and bought a much bigger window fan.

What do you guys think? Should it ventilate enough to safely work with a respirator?
EDIT: sorry about the image size.

 

[drack]

What do you guys think? Should it ventilate enough to safely work with a respirator?

Yeah you'll be fine. I have a work shop about the same size as the room and don't have any fan. That said I don't mind if my work shop smells

 

[Molag Bal]

Alrighty, Looks like im good to go. As carpathiavh99 said I want to Take precautions seriously.

Here is a link to my photobucket with pictures of my warping. (I dont want to post anymore HUGE photos lol)
http://s1312.photobucket.com/user/b...Jun17125130PM_zps7169241e.jpg.html?state=copy

Do you think this is fixable in your opinion? or should i start fresh and resin a piece all at once?

 

[Carpathia]

Alrighty, Looks like im good to go. As carpathiavh99 said I want to Take precautions seriously.

Here is a link to my photobucket with pictures of my warping. (I dont want to post anymore HUGE photos lol)
http://s1312.photobucket.com/user/b...Jun17125130PM_zps7169241e.jpg.html?state=copy

Do you think this is fixable in your opinion? or should i start fresh and resin a piece all at once?

That should be ok, so long as no one else uses it and the smell does not infiltrate the rest of your home. It would still make me nervous.

As far as the warping goes, that's totally fixable, and easiest if you do it before resining. All you need to do is apply some temporary reinforcement. Just get some rigid material, like bits of dowel rod, popcicle sticks or even some foam core, and tape/glue it into place temporarily in such a manner that the warping is gone and it will hold its shape while the resin cures. If you try to hold it in place while the resin cures, you'll be sitting there for what will feel like hours (even if it is only 30 or 40 minutes), trying to remain perfectly still.

 

[Molag Bal]

No one else should be using the room any time soon.
I put a towel by the door base and there is no vents in the room for central heat/air.
So fumes should stay contained in the room and get exhausted out of the window into the woods out back.

 

[Jason 078]

First of all, I would suggest making some kind of hood system to work in against the window. It will prevent the majority of the smell getting into the room and will add a layer of protection for you. Basically, it's a box against the window with a clear (acrylic or plexi) tilted face and a smaller front for your hands to work.

Also... WHAT ARE YOU DOING IN MY WORK ROOM?!

 

[Tym17]

Hello, i'm new here too and i would like to have your advices on few things before i start anything,

in my country i didn't found any bondo and i would like to hear what you think about what i found wich is like bondo and may do the same work, here a picture:

seems to have a hardener and resin too
Thanks for yours answers

 

[Katsu]

That looks more like a fiberglass repair kit. If you see resin and a cloth and pictures of cars, it usually means it's not bondo putty, but instead a fiberglass resin set.

That is still useful. The kit you show can be used to harden the inside of the helmet to make it strong enough to wear.

When people on the forum say "Bondo" they are referring to an automotive filler putty which is used to smooth the polygon look of the outside of the helmet. It looks like this:
http://www.amazon.com/Bondo-312-Autobody-Filler-Quart/dp/B0007ZE7XY

What your version is called depends on which country you are in. If you go into an automotive repair supplies store you can usually ask the people there for "body filler putty" or something and they'll know what it is.

 

[Tym17]

Thanks a lot Katsu for the answer! Now i'll be starting my first helmet right after my exams thanks again

 

[Molag Bal]

First of all, I would suggest making some kind of hood system to work in against the window. It will prevent the majority of the smell getting into the room and will add a layer of protection for you. Basically, it's a box against the window with a clear (acrylic or plexi) tilted face and a smaller front for your hands to work.

Also... WHAT ARE YOU DOING IN MY WORK ROOM?!

LOL it really is a small world!

 

[gmsnoodles]

I've been reading here and over on the RPF for a long time. Up until 3 weeks ago I'd never heard of pepakura, never worked with bondo, fiberglass or even owned a glue gun but I wanted to start an Iron Man build.

Started with the sharkhead mk6 helmet, I finished pepping it, did a coat of resin on the outside then the inside. Then I did a coat of fiberglass matting on the inside and that's where I'm at now. I just have 2 quick questions.

1. There are some parts (mainly around the teeth) where the matting isn't pressed hard against the helmet, which I'm going to assume could lead to soft spots or air pockets when I'm sanding the outside of the helmet during the bondo phase. What's the best way to deal with these spots? I also figure I'll have to put a coat of "rondo" on the inside to make it more comfortable to wear, but want to address those soft spots first.

Should I just sand/file the fiberglass off those areas and fill with resin? How would you guys handle that?

2. For this pep, the ear cups are seperate. Is now the right time to resin those seperately and glue them on? should I be glassing the inside of those as well where they're hollow?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Carpathia]

I've been reading here and over on the RPF for a long time. Up until 3 weeks ago I'd never heard of pepakura, never worked with bondo, fiberglass or even owned a glue gun but I wanted to start an Iron Man build.

Started with the sharkhead mk6 helmet, I finished pepping it, did a coat of resin on the outside then the inside. Then I did a coat of fiberglass matting on the inside and that's where I'm at now. I just have 2 quick questions.

1. There are some parts (mainly around the teeth) where the matting isn't pressed hard against the helmet, which I'm going to assume could lead to soft spots or air pockets when I'm sanding the outside of the helmet during the bondo phase. What's the best way to deal with these spots? I also figure I'll have to put a coat of "rondo" on the inside to make it more comfortable to wear, but want to address those soft spots first.

Should I just sand/file the fiberglass off those areas and fill with resin? How would you guys handle that?

2. For this pep, the ear cups are seperate. Is now the right time to resin those seperately and glue them on? should I be glassing the inside of those as well where they're hollow?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

1. The best way I've found to deal with air pockets is to sand or grind away the fiberglass from the inside, mix up a small batch of resin, and fill the air pocket with the resin. The already-hardened fiberglass will contain the resin as it cures, and the resin will fill in the air pocket, leaving no soft spots.

2. You could do that, or you could apply two coats of resin on the outside of the earpieces, cut away a 1" dia circle on the helmet itself where the earpieces will attach, glue or epoxy the ear pieces on, then use the above-mentioned method again. Mix up a small batch of resin, set the helmet on its side and pour the resin in the 1" hole you cut in the helmet, filling the earpiece up and hardening it in the process. Normally, simply filling a larger void with resin can be problematic, which is why I suggested two coats of resin on the outside of the earpieces; it will help ensure that the shape is maintained.

Hope that helps.

 

[hobbitdude13]

Does anyone know a good method for dying resin? I'm trying to mold a translucent piece out of resin in a certain color.

 

[Katsu]

If you live near one, TAP plastic sells resin dyes for that specific purpose. The results aren't amazing, though:

http://www.tapplastics.com/product/fiberglass/resin_fillers_dyes

You may also be able to order it on their site, but the short answer is yes, dyes for resins exist.

 

[Carpathia]

You can also take a look at some of the resin pigments and dyes at smooth-on.com. They might be a little more pricey, but they have a wide selection of casting products.

 

[kdbar]

Hello!

I would like to ask for input on my plan for hardening my pieces.

1. One layer of resin outside with supports inside to maintain shape.
2. After that cures, a second layer of resin outside with the supports still inside. After curing is done, then I can remove the supports and work on the inside.

This is where I'm not sure where to go:
3. I was originally planning to put a layer of resin on the inside, but it seems like the better option would be to put a layer of rondo on the inside?

4. After the inner layer of either resin or rondo is done, use adhesive spray to attach fiberglass cloth for the flat areas and fiberglass mat for the sharp corners.
5. Once the fiberglass mat and cloth is settled in, do I cover with another layer of resin or another layer of rondo?

Thank you!

Also, if I go the rondo route, I heard using something a bit thinner would be good, so something like 3 parts bondo to 1 part resin? How do I measure that to make sure it's accurate? I heard people say to use golf-ball size amount for bondo, but how much many ounces of resin for each golf ball sized bondo?

Thanks again for helping me out!