Why can't we be friends?

[Boba Fett]

May I stand atop the soapbox a moment? I am by no means a long-time member (only a year) by no means an expert and DEFINITELY by no means a perfect person. Plus this is not my forum to run and Adam and company are capable of handling it themselves. But I really feel as if I should say something.

I have found few forums that have had such a level of disrespect as the 405th. There are members all the time, asking for things, wanting them fast, free, and of good quality. And they expect to get it… NOW! Many forums I’ve been on, people like this have been few and far in between. The 405th seems to attract the opposite clientele. Why? No idea, but it is can be easily avoided. Here are a couple quick tips for ANYONE, newbies, established members, even up to the top. (not being presumptuous here.)


1. the golden rule: “do unto others what you would have done to you.” If you are about to post something, ask yourself, “how would I react if this was posted directed at me?” think twice, post once, avoid all wars, hard feelings, and chaos.
2. Don’t be arrogant or stuck up: I don’t care how good of a prop-maker you are, arrogance is always unwelcome. Pride in a job well-done is great, but don’t consider yourself great just because you’re good. Remain humble. Look at the likes of Lee Keegan. Very humble man, he shows off his work, certainly. Is he proud of his work? Certainly! And he has every right to be. But he doesn’t “demand” spots in the elite forum, he doesn’t demand respect because of his talent, he lets his talent do the work for him. This is not just Lee by the way, there are many others that are the same way. Follow in their foot-steps. More arguments and hard feelings are a result of arrogance than pretty much anything else. I’ve seen my fair share of members who have an inability to see their own faults. I don’t respect them. I respect the humble man who admits his mistakes and treats everyone fairly.
3. The forum is free. Nobody owes you ANYTHING. I have a real problem with this, “sense of entitlement” that many people seem to have. The world doesn’t owe you anything, if you want to accomplish something, do your own work, or spend your own money. Simple as that. This doesn’t mean you can’t ask a favor out of someone, just keep it in reason. I’ve called in several favors from Nintendude, Bevbor, and a few others. They helped me, but if they chose not to, then fine. No big deal.
4. Nobody is going to hold your hand through this process. Making props the pepakura way is far easier than some methods, and it’s really not rocket science. Before you start posting, I recommend lurking around a little, reading up on techniques, tutorials, doing research. Nobody has time to guide you step by step through the whole process. If you do not understand something fully, or are unsure about something, BY ALL MEANS! POST IT! That’s what the forums are for! Just don’t ask, “Can someone tell me how to make pepakura armors plz?”
5. Grammer: personal rant. This is a forum, not a 24-hour text messaging center. Try to talk like a normal human being…
6. Don’t get so up-tight about things: too often, emotions run high for no reason and someone snaps. IT turns into a forum war real quick. Again, look at your post. What will the reader think of this?
7. HAVE FUN! The forums are for fun, for enjoyment, for sharing. People don’t seem to get this…
8. Finally, be respectful to others.. AGAIN. The whole thing that touched this off was Nintendude leaving. He got fed up. Personally, he’s got a point. Disrespecting people, asking them for favors, going into drama-queen things, having little wars, etc. It ain’t gonna get you anywhere, and plus it peevs people. Have some respect, have some fun, and happy posting!

My rant endeth. Not playing moderator here, I am by no means perfect myself. Heck, I’ve gotten a warning from a moderator one time when I was acting a bit like an @$$. But I learned… And now I’m a better person for it. Can’t we all just get along? Can we all just use a bit of common sense? Can’t we all just be good neighbors to one another? There’s a human being on the other side of the screen, a human that can read your words, interpret their meaning, and react. I try to ignore issues such as this, but I felt like I had to say something. Take this however you want, but realize, I want only the best for this forum and it’s members. The internet and forums are great things, let’s use them for the RIGHT reasons, not to divide people. I want to have fun here too, and all too often, the few ruin it for the many. Happy posting people.

Graham

 

[Hugh Holder]

Can't let stuff like this get to you man. It's the internet way. The people you share respect with will make themselves known through their work and professionalism.

That alone is worth being here.

 

[Trooper114]

Amen. Being kind to frinds is easy, befriending people who you don't get along with is hard, but a prime example of a persons kindness: Originaly from Ghandi, more or less, and i'm guessing less, but you get it.

 

[Purrie]

This is exactly why I have built a barrier between myself and the noob-forum (Not to say all new members are like that)

I feel like I am guilty of some of these things... but I also like to think that I contribute to the people here as well as show my appreciation for what they do.

It does seem like the 405th has lurched away from the tight-knit family it once was and has become the Bungie forums where people roam aimlessly and ignore the rules/stickies (Again, not everyone, but enough to notice)

A lot of members have stepped away and moved elsewhere, and it's sad to see them go, the thought of "The new generation coming in" honestly scares me after seeing how often a member has broken the rules, disrespected another member, or even blatantly stolen another member's work. The main thing I come here for now is to admire the work that the people who inspired me to join have done, people like Nintendude, Sean Bradley, Adam, Lee, and so many more that have honestly left me in awe of how talented and dedicated they are.

I think that we are seeing a change in the mentality here, and it's not all good. We aren't a closed group of elite-prop builders like the 501st; the 405th opens its arms and encourages new members to jump in but that all seems overlooked and under-appreciated a lot. Maybe that needs to be the next step (And by all means it isn't up to me) is to close off and have people apply? Allow members to access the files, and tutorials but don't allow new people to post until they have been reviewed?

Regardless I think the 405th's core will keep me coming back time, and time again even in the face of a "OH EM GEE WHAR R TEH HALO FYE-ELLS?!?! And how do Ey Buy Aw-muh!?!11" avalanche

 

[cfh935]

Dude, your seeing a transition. It's the eb and flow of all things. The old guard is changing out and you'll soon see the new guard rise. When this transition happens the less of the team aspect you'll see. Soon enough everything will be great. I intend to do my thing on here, have fun, meet some new people, help the newcomers, learn new things, experiment and above all else....

Produce top quality beer for our group functions (for those of legal drinking age)

 

[Hugh Holder]

Produce top quality beer for our group functions (for those of legal drinking age)

Yes, exactly the point I was trying to make.

 

[Boba Fett]

Can't let stuff like this get to you man. It's the internet way. The people you share respect with will make themselves known through their work and professionalism.

That alone is worth being here.

Oh, I realize that. But it can be a struggle at times...

@purrie: I feel you're pretty level-headed... Probably more than me!
I think it's with the onset of pepakura. I love the technique, as it allows for cheap-test building and the ability to modify it to fit your needs. Problem is, anyone can do the first, pepping stage. And as more and more people flocked to get their "hALO Armorz", the more and more they wanted. Pretty soon, it gets out of hand. But I hear you with the bungie forums, ,I don;t even VENTURE in that area... lol! The problem is not pepakura though, it's the people. If only everybody could have common courtesy. That's really all I ask.


EDIT: Yes, those with experience should go and make things which are great, but everybody starts somewhere. I was fortunate to start out with some experience in similar areas (I'm a scale model builder, and have been pretty good at it competing at a national level) but I still had much to learn and I did ask a few,"stupid questions" People that make idiotic quests shouldn't be shunned for 1 offense, just iif they keep coming back without learning. A total idiot today might be the next Hugh as far as 3D models or the next Lee Keegan as far as woodworking. Everybody should get a chance, but have some respect before they start

EDIT 2: Closing off the forums is really what the forum is NOT about. It's for everyone. If you want to go to more, "elite" people, you're going to have to start up your own thing. 1 thing that probably could be improved is moderators. We have so few right now, and many of the old-times (redsleigh down for example) have disappeared. Only recently has skullcandygirl reappeared. The 405th might want to take a more aggressive approach to moderation, and/or expand it's staff. Just a thought, but if the banhammer starts to swing and warnings are issued, people will begin to listen. Not my forum, though I personally think it might be helpful.

 

[adventchildmatrix]

This is exactly why I have built a barrier between myself and the noob-forum (Not to say all new members are like that)Maybe that needs to be the next step (And by all means it isn't up to me) is to close off and have people apply? Allow members to access the files, and tutorials but don't allow new people to post until they have been reviewed?

im sorry to say that that idea has been discussed more times then there are 3d models from 405th members
we used to have a time when people could only join the 405th at certain times when applications were open but that seems to have gone now but it was a good system were we would weed out the spam accounts and the downright horrible people who would join just to put others down but alas.
theres an introduction video produced by adam around in the noob forum (i think its still there) but that is as far as we ever got with a
restriction.

 

[Boba Fett]

Plus nobody ever watches it anyway...
The limited entry was probably a good idea that needs a resurgance. But screening hundreds of people would take forever... can't be too picky.
or, you might be able to place new members on probation. Say they get 10-15 posts before they're cut off. If they seem like decent human beings, let them in. If they're fools, kick them out. Just an thought.

 

[SchizophrenicMC]

I SWEAR, I remember a day when registration was severely limited, and I was upset that I couldn't join up and learn. Put off my armor build a whole year'n a half. But, when I came back, and it was open, I quickly signed up, and tried to learn all I could. I gave respect where it was due. Finished my armor, and I accept it's no marvel, but it was like a rite of passage.

And, in the end, I think the single, biggest reason I was that way, is I was sobered by FINALLY having a chance to be a part of this, and to earn my spot.

I love that the 405th has its arms open to the community, for new members to join, and that we're not all a bunch of elitists, like the 501st. (Not that I disrespect them, in any way. Their work is impressive) But, maybe, it's just time to get our collective head out of the idealistic cloud it's in. More and more newbs come and fail to show that respect, and to learn, for themselves, how to do what we do. And it's driving away some great members. I mean, just today, Nintendude left with only the explanation that he was sick of the drama and the general stupidity of the average noob. We lost a great dude who's helped the rest of us, more than he's asked of us. To what? To new guys who don't have enough motivation to learn from references we all had to read.

I mean, it's not a nice thing to say, but I think it's just time the 405th closed its doors to new members, and make people learn for themselves how to at least ask nicely.

I guess it's not my place to say. I'm no veteran. I've been here only a little more than a year. I've made one set of props, and I haven't really contributed to anyone, because I don't know enough, myself, about how to do this awesome. I just think it's time to knit the 405th back together, into the close community it used to be. The rest of us, who weren't family before it opened back up, will just have to try our hardest to prove ourselves, but to have to prove yourself motivates you to do your best, and that's what we need, I think. Call me a Nazi, but I think we need to purify the 405th, to only the members who are willing to work for what they want.

Thus ends my rant, I guess. I'm just sad to lose who we're losing to the new kids.

 

[Boba Fett]

In agreement here too. It's a fine line between excluding people but keeping the, "vermin" if you will out. 501st has a rep of stuck-up arrogant people, and some of it is probably true. But They don't have as many problems as we get. The mando mercs probably have on eof the cleanest sites yet the most inclusive. The thing is though, There are more halo fans than fandalorians. (lol) maybe it's just the audience? And myself, I'm almost 17, still 16. I'm still a "kid" but I manage to learn. Closed registration was probably the best thing ever. I was extremely fortunate that I signed up right in one of the windows, I got lucky.

 

[adventchildmatrix]

nintendudes quit that seriously is messed up im getting the feeling we need a second forum for the well established members so that we can still see the good stuff without having to wade through the tons of noobs all asking 'how do i scale my armour' 'why do i need a respirator' i could carry on for a few dozen pages with examples of newbies not learning to read but what would be the point.
sometimes i understand the 501st's attitude towards none pros
don't get me wrong i love the banging away at the noob threads to find a diamond but sometimes it's just not worth the effort when i can do that on minecraft.

sorry to here your leaving nintendude you will be missed oh great 3d model provider

 

[Ithica]

This forum and community have come along way and with advancing comes changes. For a while the changes were for the better. I truly believe that can remain. People are just getting back into their natural routine of being about themelves. I hope some of you can contest to the time when members did things for one another. I have been gone for a lil while due to this deployment crap and I come back to seeing dramaand issues. I only hope I can partake once again and help bring some things back. The Older Members like Lee, Privateer, Ben Streeper, Adam, Sean Bradley, Brandon, Das Brutus, Johnny and many others hve paived a way but it is up to the new Members to continue duing so. Take those great examples and even the not so great examples and build. Instead of worrying about what other Members are doing that hurts the Community, focus on what you as an Member can do to make it better. We have done it before and will do it again, the cycle continues.

Ithica

 

[adventchildmatrix]

This forum and community have come along way and with advancing comes changes. For a while the changes were for the better. I truly believe that can remain. People are just getting back into their natural routine of being about themelves. I hope some of you can contest to the time when members did things for one another. I have been gone for a lil while due to this deployment crap and I come back to seeing dramaand issues. I only hope I can partake once again and help bring some things back. The Older Members like Lee, Privateer, Ben Streeper, Adam, Sean Bradley, Brandon, Das Brutus, Johnny and many others hve paived a way but it is up to the new Members to continue duing so. Take those great examples and even the not so great examples and build. Instead of worrying about what other Members are doing that hurts the Community, focus on what you as an Member can do to make it better. We have done it before and will do it again, the cycle continues.

Ithica

i completely agree ithica
good to see your still around
(you still want those light you ordered from me last year :}
its just a shame when we lose the great members because of a handfull of members who just don't want to put the small amount of effort to read the stickies and have a little trial and error. I remember the amount of times i messed up as a newbie
like the time i completely finished a MRV helm by rundown to find out the the heck was WAY to small only after i had fibreglassed resined and put the first layer of primer on. :{ then when i went to sell it my brother dropped a text book on it and shattered the entire face area.

but im still here fighting away at my halo props and im so much the better prop builder for it

 

[Trooper114]

I just got a pm from a member who just signed up and wanted to know what to do, gave him/her a rant and pointed him/her into the right direction.

Anyway, like what chf935 said, its a change in the guard, one day, we, the younger generation of the forum will take the wieght of the Elders shoulders, and carry it ourselves, to later past it on to others, that is if we stay on long enough to survive the change, and if this site remains alive for the future. To endure is the best most of us can do at the moment.

 

[adventchildmatrix]

I just got a pm from a member who just signed up and wanted to know what to do, gave him/her a rant and pointed him/her into the right direction.

im sorry to say but that is the sort of behaviour we have been talking about
ranting at the newbies is a part of the problem were on about
all you should have done is a simple pm
'Noob forum, read the stickies'

job done

 

[Trooper114]

Your right, i guess i jumped the gun abit.

 

[adventchildmatrix]

Your right, i guess i jumped the gun abit.

i think the best advice i can give about dealing with noobs is the advice a friend of mine once gave me on here'
'treat a noob as you would a person from another country who has blatently not evan bothered to learn your language smile and
point them in the right direction and quietly think your a lazy ignorant person who doesn't bother to learn about were your going'

works everytime
if it still dont work there is always the trusty lmgtfy.com just to nail the point home.

 

[Jester1014]

This forum and community have come along way and with advancing comes changes. For a while the changes were for the better. I truly believe that can remain. People are just getting back into their natural routine of being about themelves. I hope some of you can contest to the time when members did things for one another. I have been gone for a lil while due to this deployment crap and I come back to seeing dramaand issues. I only hope I can partake once again and help bring some things back. The Older Members like Lee, Privateer, Ben Streeper, Adam, Sean Bradley, Brandon, Das Brutus, Johnny and many others hve paived a way but it is up to the new Members to continue duing so. Take those great examples and even the not so great examples and build. Instead of worrying about what other Members are doing that hurts the Community, focus on what you as an Member can do to make it better. We have done it before and will do it again, the cycle continues.

Ithica

Truly spoken mate.

I know I'm still fresh to this whole armor and prop making forum. It's pretty bothersome to me and some of those few who are serious about Paving the Way, as Ithica said. That we're losing valuable sources of input and works of art.

I believe we all can be friend on this site and beyond, if possible. I talk about this site and the members I've had intereactions on it, to many of my friend and aquantinces alike. Ofcourse there are going to be those who wish to not keep negative comments to themselves. Those like that will be sifter out and just disappear through the days, months, and years to come
.
Heres to meetin up with any of you at a con or heck maybe even an organized PEP or build rally! Long live the 405th! OORAH!

 

[soul products]

ok first id like to say its good to hear from you ithica, good to hear your still in one piece and secondly.................PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DONT EVA LEAVE!! you are by far one of the coolest people here........'composing myself'

ok where was i... i just thought of something, instead of putting a window for applications why not put a dedication approval. you have to build at least a full pep suit(no fiberglass ect.) (or something else substantial) to become even a noob. that would certainly weed out the people who dont care or are just in it for personal gain. if anything, thats the one thing (mostly) that all the disrespectful people have in common.