2008 presidential elections

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DoC ByTeS said:
I war on terror? This war will never end, and even if it did it won't be for decades. Terrorism is a constant, so fighting terrorism is also a constant. This is not a war but the battles of the egos of men. The only way that it would end is with one or more nations removed from this earth.


I never said war on terror, i said we will be fighting terrorists(/)rebels which is true.... terrorists is just the word i used to try to describe them. I know terrorism cant be fought.... if you kill one mant hen his son or daughter will hate america and start there own killing spree. It can never end.
 
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DoC ByTeS said:
But you can't have one without the other, beside that's what our country ran into a "War on Terror". How can you fight terrorist and not understand it is a war on terrorist, which in turn makes more terrorist for those you kill in a country that is there's not ours? Would you just give up if another country came to take over the U.S.? I don't think so.

To sum it up we made a stupid move and the world is gonna pay for it.... That makes another good point, with most of our army and trained marines in iraq and the middle eastern countries we are open to a large scale attack. Haha its something ive dreamed about (nightmare) i know its probably not gonna happen but it is possible if any country is crazy enough to (NORTH KOREA)!!!
 
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DoC ByTeS said:
Yet you still said, "he wil do what it takes to make peace or get our country out of the war." If you agree that it will never end then what is Obama going to do that is so special, really? He says what it takes to get votes, he is not superman.

No, IF WE TELL OUR TROOPS TO GET OUT OF IRAQ THEN THEY WILL NOT BE FIGHTING... ITS NOT LIKE WE ARE FORCED TO STAY THERE. BUT if they attack us in america then thats a different story, did you watch that 60 minutes abbout saddam.... he told the prosecuter that the only reasont they were fighting americans was because we where in there terriroty. If we pull out slowy but surrely it should be over within 2 years. I havde to go so i wont reply for a few hour. this is just oppinions. You have no 100% proof to what your saying and nor do i.
 
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DoC ByTeS said:
Terrorism grew last time we left the middle east, because we where over there and invaded their land. When we leave we will have to worry more about terrorist attacks here in the U.S. That my friend is a fact. And if you read the news you will find that if we pull out now there will be a blood bath that engulfs their newly democratic nation.

THAT THERE IS EXACTLY THE PROBLEM.... THERE BLOOD BATH IS NOT OUR PROBLEM!!! i know its sick to say, but we shouldnt have to lose lives to save them. Its not our war and we are not the world police. And no there is no fact that if we leave now there will be more terrorist attacks in america, SHOW ME THE PROOF.... there is none because it hasnt happened yet. Like i said i have to go. Somebody else please tell this man what i am talking about when i leave.
 
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Blood spilled that we ignore is blood on our own hands ;)

War may not be the best thing in the world since sliced bread, but sometimes it is needed.

When Sadam was found and taken out of position, Iraq was able to re open schools, public places, get water running in homes, and live a semi more normal life style, if we didnt help them, who would have? No one. If no one helped, thousands of people would still be living oppressed and deprived of their freedom and needs in life, just because it isnt directly our problem, doesnt mean we shouldnt have helped. They needed someone to free them, and the US stood up to help.

If you were in an accident and left to die, you'd want someone to help you, sure they can drive by and say "not my problem, keep driving" but even if they do stop and help you, they still helped and made things better even though they didnt know you and it wasnt their direct responsibility.
 
I think because the war is off our shores, people dont even give a care about it because their not the ones fighting or experiencing war in their own homes.

Someday when we are invaded, and some other country sends thousands of troops to help us, you will be thankful they helped, even if it isnt their problem.
 
I think the one baptist church that rallies at funerals need to just fall over dead, they arent a real church, real churches back up and support their troops, they dont go petition at funerals and rant about soldiers being evil. I cant believe how they can continuously keep it up to EVERY funeral, they need a hobby.
 
Despite what I said earlier, and despite the fact that I believe in what I said, and believe that ultimately no good will come from tryng to argue, I am going to be a bit of a hypocrite and throw some things out there for consideration, knowing full well that it will probably be ignored, but I guess I can hope.

Income tax- Ok, why don't we tax the people who make our country and economic power and seperate us from the rest of the world? Seriously, discouraging professionals by taking a huge amount of thier income is a terrible idea if you intend to keep any of them around.

Welfare- So, if your successful and through your efforts help our country you get taxed to make it less worth your while, but if your a complete failure and a drag on our economy (theres no nice way to put it), we give you a handout? (granted some people have no choice and need welfare, while others just like the easy money, we need to spend more time distinguishing between these people)

The war in Iraq - I think any point I would like to make at this point has already been made, I personally feel that it was not only a threat, but that the good that can potentially result if we help them rebuild is well worth the effort.

Alaska- I have to ask, how much damage is a few pipelines the size of a highway really going to do to a state that is half the size of mainland U.S.A.? Just so you know, the cost of not building a pipeline is having to rely on the middle east for fuel and as a result flooding the foreign market with our currency and hurting the value of the dollar in a big way.

Alternate Fuel sources- Does anyone else find it absolutely maddening that this country produces so much food it can burn an acre for the sole purpose of producing 30 gallons of gas a year, while other countries are starving? Seems like a ridiculous waste to me.. Acre of corn vs 30 gallons of gas....

Global Warming- given that if you actually analyze gores peace prize winning film you will soon figure out that most of what he said is a blatant lie and half of his statistics are completly wrong, why are we so concerned with this? Maybe we are having a nature climate cycle (this happens... even without humans in existance). However, I'm not saying it's not something we shouldn't look into, just not as much as some lunatic clamoring for recognition asks us too.

Change- This drives me crazy. Obama's slogan.. You want to take the best country in the world and change it? Are you insane? Seriously, I've been around the world and I have to tell you, I can't imagine living anywhere else, quite simply our lifestyle is the best, and I come from a family of Europeans and to be honest, no one in our family has ever had it so good, the ones who stayed behind are living proof.. and some nutjob wants to change our country for the sake of.. well change? I can tell you I will "change" our country all I want and as soon as I get into office declare the U.S.A. a communist state... is this an improvement?

Phone tapping- Ok seriously, if the goverment wants to hear my phone calls, fine. The most they'd get out of me is that I drank under age at some point in my life (which, incidentally, I can tell a police officer at any time and not be arrested for it). Meanwhile a terrorist has to think twice anytime he wants to make a phone call. I call this a good trade off, and I'd be REALLY mad if a terrorist attack that could have been prevented wasn't because we were too worried about phone tapping.

I probably should of stayed out of this, as I attempted to earlier, but it's been bugging at me and I went ahead and did something hypocritical and against my own beliefs, but here it is.
 
DoC ByTeS said:
Sorry to get off like that Adam, but it had to be said. Frost is right that it's wrong, and very sad.
No, he means mitt romney just quit.
 
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Zaso117 said:
My thoughts on super tuesday...
Romney did decent, but fell behind. I project him dropping out within the next couple weeks.


Not gonna brag or anything :p

I did like having him in the race though.
 
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SpartanForever, how can you call America a democracy, or the first for that matter?

Democracy: laws are voted on directly by the people (ancient Athens is the first I believe)

Republic: people elect representatives who vote on laws (ancient Rome, after the fall of the Etruscan monarchy and before the rise of the empire)

The Founding Fathers hated the idea of a democracy (rule by the mob) and instead chose the stronger alternative, the republic (rule by the law).

Also there's all this debate about fighting terrorism in the Middle East. A few years ago everyone was screaming "Down with Saddam!" while they conveniently forget we're the ones that put him in power. And everyone's worried about new Iraq, the baby democracy (NOT, it's a republic too). The truth is that it won't work. It's not working now with our help. The reason is to have representative rule by the people, you first have to have a demographic to pull from. After the end of WWI, Britain carved up the old Austrian-Hungarian Empire, it did so without any regard to ethnicity, culture, or religion. The republican form of government doesn't work because there's no majority, no shared beliefs or problems, and sometimes no shared language. It's unnatural and therefore must be held together by force, by a strong-handed dictator. If we just let them alone, and let the current borders dissolve, then the Middle Eastern countries will reform into natural entities, based on some commonality (be it religion, ethnicity, language, culture, etc.). Why is everyone so against redrawing the lines on their maps? Yes, there might be a lot of bloodshed and upheaval as this happens, but in the long run it will stabilise and ultimately significantly decrease the current problems. It was foreign intervention into the region's affairs that caused the problem in the first place, and history has already shown that all of our attempts to fix it have led to even more problems. Let them fix it themselves.

And I don't understand how a free people could allow their government to spy on them. It's not about hiding anything, it's about privacy. And the feds talk about "Oh, the wiretapping has stopped a bunch of huge terrorist attacks" but they never have any proof to back it up. It's also small steps like these that transform a free country into a totalitarian police state. Remember what George Washington said: "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." The government does not do things out of the goodness of its heart. It starts out with looking for terrorists, then it expands a little more to looking for serial killers and kidnappers, and it just snowballs, pushing for a little bit more every time until free speech is completely eradicated (for example, if you're talking to a friend and you criticise Bush for allowing torture, then you're siding with the terrorists and must therefore be sent Guantanamo before you decide to bomb Wal-Mart). The truth is that wiretapping puts us more at risk. If those monitoring stations were hacked or in any way compromised, our enemies would know everything, including what it is our government is looking for. In other words, we'd be telling the terrorist exactly what we look for, and they'd know exactly what to do to go undetected.

To quote Benjamin Franklin: "Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security."

Now who actually read that? Better yet, who understood it?
 
Garland said:
And I don't understand how a free people could allow their government to spy on them. It's not about hiding anything, it's about privacy. And the feds talk about "Oh, the wiretapping has stopped a bunch of huge terrorist attacks" but they never have any proof to back it up. It's also small steps like these that transform a free country into a totalitarian police state. Remember what George Washington said: "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." The government does not do things out of the goodness of its heart. It starts out with looking for terrorists, then it expands a little more to looking for serial killers and kidnappers, and it just snowballs, pushing for a little bit more every time until free speech is completely eradicated (for example, if you're talking to a friend and you criticise Bush for allowing torture, then you're siding with the terrorists and must therefore be sent Guantanamo before you decide to bomb Wal-Mart). The truth is that wiretapping puts us more at risk. If those monitoring stations were hacked or in any way compromised, our enemies would know everything, including what it is our government is looking for. In other words, we'd be telling the terrorist exactly what we look for, and they'd know exactly what to do to go undetected.

To quote Benjamin Franklin: "Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security."

Now who actually read that? Better yet, who understood it?


I really think you need to focus more on whats reality. At the moment the sheer amount of phonecalls (and the amount minor offenses mentioned in them) is enough to deter anything but action against terrorists. If they launched an investigation into every "oh I got drunk and high with my friend" it would be a ridiculous waste of resources. And naturally there is no proof about what terrorrist attacks were stopped because first, they were stopped, second, we probably don't want to give away how we stopped them. To be honest we already have security over freedom in our police force, they key is to monitor it and not let it get out of control, and I'm pretty confident that wire tapping will never get to such a crazed state, the outcry would be ridiculous from the media the first time something that radical was suspected. I'm pretty confident Ben didn't have phonecalls in mind. As far as I'm concerned I'd be beyond angry if one of my family members was killed in an attack that could of been prevented but wasn't because people being overly sensative and predicting a non-existant slippery slope on the wire tapping idea.
 
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Ok im back, first off and prolly the only thing i have to say.... I KNOW WE SHOULDNT HAVE GONE TO IRAQ, do you think i dont think that.... yes the blood is in or hands now but its to late to save the country it would just cost us more lives to restore iraq and that could take years and maybe even never happen. I agree war is not the right thing to do unless your the one who was attacked. I just think the war should end, its not worth our troops lives anymore. One of my best friends jsut got back from iraq and the people there told him that they would not fight him if he left there country alone. Also he said there is barely any fighting going on and he is bored out of his mind. 11th light infantry brigade, US Army. I have another friend who unfortuntely just lost his life in a-stan in a fire fight... he was just a computer technician for the marines.
 
DoC ByTeS said:
"People shouldn't be afraid of their government, governments should be afraid of their people."
"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government." - Thomas Paine, American revolutionary

And our forefathers said it was OUR DUTY to overthrow the goverment when it no longer speaks for it's people, it should be reborn.

Those quotes i completely agree with... but that cant happen until the people are united and agree with each other or else it will be an all out war.
 
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SpartanForever said:
One of my best friends jsut got back from iraq and the people there told him that they would not fight him if he left there country alone. Also he said there is barely any fighting going on and he is bored out of his mind.
Without names, or anything, that statement cannot be believed.
 
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AoBfrost said:
Without names, or anything, that statement cannot be believed.

Many soldiers that come back from iraq say it, ask anyone in person who just got back... first talk to a real soldier then doubt it. His name is gunnery seargent Allen, full name is Dawson Allen. He came from the blackwaters basic training camp...
 
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AoBfrost said:
You're not a soldier, you cant really speak their mind.

UMMM yes actually i am sort of... i am currently looking for a training camp to take me until my files get through to WEST POINT MILITARY ACADEMY, if you dont know what that is it is the united states military academy... ranked #1 hardest college to get into. Also many of my recruitment friends are ccoming back from iraq, and my step uncle is out in a-stan right now... I know tons of marines and army soldier who fought and are now getting back, about to go back for another term. i also know a green berret who's out there.
 
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