405th.com -- Costuming Wiki -- Tutorials

[Deadguy]

Exactly, and aside from that, they're the same.. that's why I'm saying it's a non-issue as far as "should we, will it be alright to, what about copyrights", etc..

That assumes an intenal wiki, rather than a publically hosted one which uses a different license type.

 

[Vrogy]

Public domain's way out, copyright unnecessary because we're not making money, plus legal complications with bungie.. we need something in between.
Noncommercial is a must, attribution is a must.. we're looking as some flavor of Creative Commons license here. The last part regards derivative works- will we let other people who give us credit and aren't making money off our work improve on it?

To that question we can answer a few ways:
-No. No improvement or modification can be made, but our stuff can still make it to more eyeballs, with our name on it, and with no monetary complications.
-Yes. Other people can improve upon or modify and adapt our work to their needs. We still receive credit, and people still hear about us through our work.
-Yes, as long as others share alike. This one's interesting. It basically means people who modify, adapt or improve on our work will have to release it under the same license we did- which means it'll then be able to be improved upon forever, by anyone.

I like Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike. It's like GNU with the commercial aspect cut out- all of the same benefits, none of the risk.

Also, for what it's worth, I didn't choose Wikia for the GNU GPL- I chose it because they were the biggest accessable wiki hub. The aim wasn't to give anybody's work away for free, it was for us to help edumacate more noobs, faster and easier.

 

[Deadguy]

Although I'm inclined to share with the folks in this community, I'm not real keen with a "total share" to reach folks that, for whatever reason, are unable to be respectful of others within this community. If they can be respectful, and want to see what we've got, that's fine.. simply join.

How do you feel about being able to deny access to folks that manage to get themselves banned from the forums?

My own personal feeling is that if someone wasn't willing to be respectful of the folks around them, and get along with folks, why would I want to share anything with them?

When someone is blocked from here, I beleive they should be blocked from the 405th informational resources (Wiki) as well, but is that just me?

Those licences you're referring to would be nice WITHIN the 405th forums, where folks could improve things for as long as the site remains, but outside the site? what's the point? If you're into Halo costuming, why not just join?

 

[odst26]

Although I'm inclined to share with the folks in this community, I'm not real keen with a "total share" to reach folks that, for whatever reason, are unable to be respectful of others within this community. If they can be respectful, and want to see what we've got, that's fine.. simply join.

How do you feel about being able to deny access to folks that manage to get themselves banned from the forums?

My own personal feeling is that if someone wasn't willing to be respectful of the folks around them, and get along with folks, why would I want to share anything with them?

When someone is blocked from here, I beleive they should be blocked from the 405th informational resources (Wiki) as well, but is that just me?

Those licences you're referring to would be nice WITHIN the 405th forums, where folks could improve things for as long as the site remains, but outside the site? what's the point? If you're into Halo costuming, why not just join?

i agree

 

[Vrogy]

Although I'm inclined to share with the folks in this community, I'm not real keen with a "total share" to reach folks that, for whatever reason, are unable to be respectful of others within this community. If they can be respectful, and want to see what we've got, that's fine.. simply join.

I think you're way, way, WAY overstating the amount of people that will be. How many total accounts have been banned here, and how many people become interested in building halo costumes?

I don't think that's going to even work. Couple reasons.. Tor and other free proxies, free email addresses, and the necessity to make these resources available to new members. I don't think any of those are changing, and unless you want to get a huuuuuuge blacklist of free proxies going, or get some dystopianesque interview process going in which you must provide a valid photo ID and biometrics, there's not going to be any shutting people out.

Personally, I think shutting people out is a terrible idea, which won't even work. Right now, information is in the process of becoming free. I don't think a halo costuming club is going to be able to stand in the way of an entire cultural shift.

In any case, I don't think the value of these boards is in the stickies. It's in the community of people with a common interest, all the brains that check in here every little while. The various psychological pressures which drive people here are going to make a 405th wiki-rip a poor substitute anyways, so.. don't sweat it so much. :rolleyes

 

[UNSC Leatherneck]

Wow, this is a great discussion. I haven't had to break out the nomex yet, either. That's refreshing. Now, back on topic. I don't see having a blacklist as a goal. It totally goes against what we're about. Even limiting the wiki to forum members only could be a debatable move. I would like to see open access to the wiki, just as non-members can read the forums, with control of the content resting with 405th members and appropriate protections in place to protect the rights of those producing content. The exact wording of the license/disclaimer/etc. would to be hammered out, but I think this solution is the best of both worlds. The content is freely available, but protected. I think a tutorial section could be created on the 405th wiki with several tutorials presented there. A single sticky pointing there would do a lot to declutter the site. I'm pretty sure this has already been mentioned, so this is my support of the idea.

 

[Deadguy]

I think you're way, way, WAY overstating the amount of people that will be. How many total accounts have been banned here, and how many people become interested in building halo costumes?

I don't think that's going to even work. Couple reasons.. Tor and other free proxies, free email addresses, and the necessity to make these resources available to new members. I don't think any of those are changing, and unless you want to get a huuuuuuge blacklist of free proxies going, or get some dystopianesque interview process going in which you must provide a valid photo ID and biometrics, there's not going to be any shutting people out.

Personally, I think shutting people out is a terrible idea, which won't even work. Right now, information is in the process of becoming free. I don't think a halo costuming club is going to be able to stand in the way of an entire cultural shift.

In any case, I don't think the value of these boards is in the stickies. It's in the community of people with a common interest, all the brains that check in here every little while. The various psychological pressures which drive people here are going to make a 405th wiki-rip a poor substitute anyways, so.. don't sweat it so much. :rolleyes

The idea, to me, isn't to block anyone from the wiki except for those that earn a ban. You're right, it's not a lot of people that have been banned, but those that have, were banned for a reason.

I recognize that making a foolproof block against those individuals isn't going to happen, but I want at least a roadblock set-up to stop the average user with no real hacking knowledge. The folks that would use our information are kinda' limited to folks that are either here already, or have been here. If nothing else, by ducking a ban, that person knows they need to keep their head down and keep up the respect level with others, to stop from earning a new ban.

Do that for a little while and you'll see that people treat you better, and you start seeing the advantages of working with folks, rather than against them. It's actually advantageous for them to have that kind of learning experience, plus a way to distance themselves from their past wrongs so that people aren't like.. "ohh god, it's that guy again..". It's that kind of negative reputation that can kill a members ability to get along, or improve their behavior... everyone knows them as a troublemaker, and they are EXTREMELY RARELY given the benefit of the doubt by the community.

You're exactly right in that the tutorials, while valuable, pale in comparison to the value of the forum members themselves. The wiki itself is probably going to be primarily a link system, at least at first, but as discussions move back and forth from the wiki, more information will likely end up being there.. availible to.. members or the general public at large.

If I do a WIP and someone is completely disrespectful of it, and they are constantly repeating that pattern with others, I don't want them to always be part of my community, or otherwise attached to it. I don't want them to continue to be able to post comments, or worse, make changes to my material, etc.

Also, it should be pointed out that "no respect" folks tend to chase off the people who make the most efforts to share their projects, and often prove to be amongst the more skilled and with the best resources to improve the community's ability to do things. Those folks with those resources don't really NEED to be here, they merely WANT to be here, to enjoy the ride as it were, and to be in a place where there's a like-minded love of what they're doing. Faced with repeated disrespect, the experience is no longer a good one.

As folks chase-off those people.. the common denominator lowers... That's how a community goes "to the dogs" and fades away. That's why the rules are in-place, and that's why mods enforce them. Enforcement can be overdone, and underdone, with varying results, but I beleive a healthy balance must be maintained in-order to keep-up the value of the community.

Here's another question, based on your responces versus my point..

Any ban that can be ducked can also be ducked here on the forums. Does that suggest, keeping with your idea, that the sign-in, and banning, etc, isn't useful on forums? If there's still value in it, why shouldn't we have that value extend to the wiki as well?

 

[Vrogy]

at least a roadblock set-up to stop the average user with no real hacking knowledge.

This kind of information is becoming common knowledge, and it's not 'hacking', either. I've seen tutorials on BoingBoing, that's pretty mainstream for the interwebs. I'm fairly certain that if you googled 'tor tutorial', you'd have everything you needed right there.

Any ban that can be ducked can also be ducked here on the forums. Does that suggest, keeping with your idea, that the sign-in, and banning, etc, isn't useful on forums? If there's still value in it, why shouldn't we have that value extend to the wiki as well?

A lot of internet communities get along without identities- and manage to operate pretty well without it. If you've even been to /po/ on 4chan, you'll see a lot of seriously awesome papercraft models. There's no username required there at all, just message text and an image- it's an imageboard. As a result, 4chan is now a juggernaut of internet culture.

Wikis actually can work both ways- you can make anonymous edits, or you can create a user account. Anonymous edits are logged by your IP address, so if someone keeps defacing pages, a ban is eminent, but users can report defacings to admins, and rolling back edits is very simple.

 

[UNSC Leatherneck]

I suggest that anonymous edits be disallowed. Have users login with their forum ID and password to make edits. That may help stem the tide of junk edits on wiki pages.

 

[Vrogy]

I suggest that anonymous edits be disallowed. Have users login with their forum ID and password to make edits. That may help stem the tide of junk edits on wiki pages.

You also lock out useful anonymous edits, too.. and after a while, most anonymous users make accounts. It's more about lowered barriers to entry.

Also, selective barriers can be used- for example, protecting certain articles, like, for example, an article about what the 405th is, or standards for costumes, proper behavior when in character, etc would definitely want to be protected.. but articles about various strengthening methods, finishing, conventions to attend, or places to buy silicone or casting supplies.. not so much.

 

[shearme]

I agree with Vrogy on that last one... We don't want little timmy to come in and say the 405th worships Barnie

 

[UNSC Leatherneck]

You also lock out useful anonymous edits, too.. and after a while, most anonymous users make accounts. It's more about lowered barriers to entry.

Also, selective barriers can be used- for example, protecting certain articles, like, for example, an article about what the 405th is, or standards for costumes, proper behavior when in character, etc would definitely want to be protected.. but articles about various strengthening methods, finishing, conventions to attend, or places to buy silicone or casting supplies.. not so much.

There is already a registration requirement before someone can post on the forums, so the same can easily apply to the wiki. If someone wishes to contribute they can go through the registration process, which is quite simple. That also means that the admins don't have to worry about controls to individual articles.

 

[Deadguy]

There is already a registration requirement before someone can post on the forums, so the same can easily apply to the wiki. If someone wishes to contribute they can go through the registration process, which is quite simple. That also means that the admins don't have to worry about controls to individual articles.

I suspect that, to achieve what you're thinking, you'd still need those controls. Imagine what some of the forum posts here would turn into if they weren't locked posts.

I think one of the largest failings of the people that use the internet is the fact that folks who think they're annonymous are more likely to be complete jerks to other people.

Here, without TOTAL annonyminity, your reputation matters so you get less complete jerks, and those that ARE jerks are easily recognized over time, and you can avoid dealing with them.

The whole aversion to signing-in is lazyness. Not exactly a factor I'm too worried about not including. Another aversion to it is because it avoids building a reputation, positive, or otherwise, but I feel strongly that you either stand by what you say and do, or simply don't say or do them.

It's not like it ties to your real identity, but it SHOULD tie to your real sense of morals, etc.., and it seems like most folks are becoming more cognisant of that fact over time.

 

[kensai111]

I decided that my topic of interest fit in this category so no need to add more clutter, and since it's currently in discussion I'd think it would be a fair time to bring it up. Regarding clutter, we have alot of talented individuals on the board who also enjoy costuming outside the Halo Universe. I feel we should have a separate section for Non-Halo Universe Costuming. I just think it can be confusing to newcomers who are looking for information and new posts and come across 100 Iron Man topics, Gears of War armor, etc etc. In my personal opinion it makes the forum look even further scattered and unorganized. I sent a message to all the mods and it was unanswered and I accept that you guys are busy beyond belief, and that particular message happen to fall on the day before all this discussion of such. So I thought I might bring something to the table that might further help the organization of the forums. Personally I love to see projects outside of the Halo Universe, myself being a former 501st, and would love to see others creations; just not mixed in with all the halo-based creation information. Any comments?

Cheers,
Kensai

 

[Deadguy]

I'd agree with that.. lump 'em into a single directory, but we're on a different page at the moment. Ihear you, but don't know the priority at the moment.

We have a distinct problem with people "not liking" threads that pop up on here. I refer not only to "non-halo" projects, but also "secret projects" and stuff. May I please remind folks that the secret project threads often end-up containing more useful info than more than half the other threads on here.. Non-halo projects are the same way.. the WIP files are very useful to look at, even if they start-off being "secret", or if they're non-halo.

There's enough folks here that we're going to have differing opinions, and realistically, I don't care what anyone has to say about "not liking" a thread or a style. Does anyone stop for a minute and consider that their negative posting on a topic like thatc is 1000 times less useful, and 1000 times more distasteful than the post they're complaining about? It's a few threads to ignore, or skip past, not some kind of required reading thing.

If no one responds to someone.. they tend to stop the thread, or offer more useful info. When you get in there to complain, it merely turns the thread into useless garbage and fighting.

I don't want a big argument here.. this isn't a debate, it's about telling you to respect others, EVEN WHEN you, personally, are not interested in what they're doing/talking about. Sure, let them know their in the wrong forum, or need progress pics or something, but aside from that? respect them by not commenting negatively. This is aimed at every person who has ever uttered a negatvie word in any thread, which most likely includes the whole forum, not someone singled out or anything.

 

[kensai111]

Wouldn't be doing my job as a member if I didn't throw that out there. I try to be a positive member . Thanks for responding Mike. I know you guys are sorting out ALOT of items at the moment concerning organization thought it would be an appropriate time to voice my opinion since it does contain to what you're already working on. Anywho, I'm not much of a debater, back to armor making

Cheers,
Kensai