Spartan137
Well-Known Member
MC PwN 3R said:
Then they would be perfect!
Oh, if the 405th adopts special awards, then thatll work too!
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Ranking discussion
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Then they would be perfect!
Oh, if the 405th adopts special awards, then thatll work too!
i agree, the way the idea came up was a good one. i must admit, why didnt i think of that before? but then, mindless, meaningless posts come into play.
What if there was a "report post/SPAM" button? that the mods can only use, that way, everything is fair and people who are in an arguement cannot take away or add onto their post count, therefore keeping it fair and even?
or perhaps not how many posts you have but how meaningful you post is? mods and others alike excluding yourself can determine how the post is useful or not. by giving negative or positive points, as such. I noticed the other day that there was a "Donate Points" selection on the Profile thing. if we can use that function, by giving negative or positive points (from mods or Adam) maybe we can kick start this little idea and make it be a little more, interesting.
What if there was a "report post/SPAM" button? that the mods can only use, that way, everything is fair and people who are in an arguement cannot take away or add onto their post count, therefore keeping it fair and even?
or perhaps not how many posts you have but how meaningful you post is? mods and others alike excluding yourself can determine how the post is useful or not. by giving negative or positive points, as such. I noticed the other day that there was a "Donate Points" selection on the Profile thing. if we can use that function, by giving negative or positive points (from mods or Adam) maybe we can kick start this little idea and make it be a little more, interesting.
Vrogy
Well-Known Member
Spartan137 said:
Allow me to paraphrase.. "This thread is for talking about this, and if we should do it. But don't say we shouldn't! That's not nice!".
If you didn't really want people's opinions on this, you shouldn't have posted it.
It's a terrible idea, and completely pointless right now. Your time is better spent building armor.
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QFMTVrogy said:
So very, very, true.
The header doesnt say
"405th Mjolnir Armor- Halo Ranking System and Arguing Site, Master Chief"
My opinion of course, but I really dont care if we are ranked or not, and if we are, it shouldnt be on posts.
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Shadow92fire
New Member
If we go by posts, although redundant, it could be jipped. If we go by armor, being that is what this site is for it might show a better system. I am still new so i know very little
Shadow Dragon
Shadow Dragon
Deadguy
Well-Known Member
No ranks, because they would either be meaningless, or would enable folks to boss each other around. Ranks are also considered by the non-military, as an inevitable climb to the top. Members are members, and people with extra jobs have positions.
To have a rank based on the amount of posts, encourages spam. Rank based on the number of suits of armor, would encourage lying. To stop the lying, it would require a way to officially monitor it.. which is ridiculous.. I could make a suit of armor, and spraypaint it a different color every week and claim it was a new one.. a montior of some sort would have the burden of proving that I was lying. I could also send-in pics from someone else's suit and there's very little chance I'd be caught doing it, unless a monitor went on a witchhunt, and somehow managed to detect the lie.
Also, would making a an accurate weapon increase someone's rank? What if it was pep, or molded.. would that make a difference? what if it was a recast (legal or otherwise)? What if it was a recast of something else you already did?
If there was a foolproof method of insuring proper rank increases, now you're left wondering if making armor makes you more able to lead people, or more able to teach people? Doing something yourself merely increases your personal knowledge.. it doesn't automatically make you a teacher, or automatically mean that your methods are the best ones out there.. or the safest.
It does nothing except potentially mislead people.
A member is a member is a member.. if you build up a reputation, your work, and your posts will speak for themselves.. no amount of sigs will do anything to affect that. If you're proud of your work, and want to include something in your sig to draw attention to it, then feel free, but beyond that, there's no point in it.
Some members have titles given to them, typically it reflects a group that they work with, as a an attempt was partially made to identify those folks who work with various studios. I'm not 100% sure, but I beleive at least most of them are personally known to Adam (therefore proving the affiliation to that group). Eventually, perhaps, the titles will be changed to reflect various positions, but I'm not sure of that.
It was already mentioned here, but it's worth repeating... Mod's and other "positions" within the club are indications of duties. Yes, some positions may hold an element of power, but only to enforce some part of the charter, and/or interpret it to the best of their ability. They, however, are answerable to you, each other, and to the site administrator.
For example, a Moderator's duty is to follow the rules that everyone else has to follow, and help ensure that if someone strays from following the rules in their posts, that they fix them, warn them, or remove them, to keep the forums in working order. As long as they do that in a reasonable way, they are able to edit, delete or move posts in-order to achieve that goal. If it were a real "power", a mod could go through and delete every post made by an individual, just because they felt like it, and edit their posts to say something like: "look at me, I'm an idiot". Yes, they CAN do that, but that'd certainly cause a situation where they'd no longer be a moderator, because they proved unable to support the rules of the forums. In fact, that type of abuse would probably cause the mod in question to get banned.
Ranks are for the military.. we're a costume club that does the military thing for show, because we're in military costumes.. The rank thing might exist as an optional roleplaying thing, but it's not something the club needs.
I'm referring to the Club, not the Forums.
To have a rank based on the amount of posts, encourages spam. Rank based on the number of suits of armor, would encourage lying. To stop the lying, it would require a way to officially monitor it.. which is ridiculous.. I could make a suit of armor, and spraypaint it a different color every week and claim it was a new one.. a montior of some sort would have the burden of proving that I was lying. I could also send-in pics from someone else's suit and there's very little chance I'd be caught doing it, unless a monitor went on a witchhunt, and somehow managed to detect the lie.
Also, would making a an accurate weapon increase someone's rank? What if it was pep, or molded.. would that make a difference? what if it was a recast (legal or otherwise)? What if it was a recast of something else you already did?
If there was a foolproof method of insuring proper rank increases, now you're left wondering if making armor makes you more able to lead people, or more able to teach people? Doing something yourself merely increases your personal knowledge.. it doesn't automatically make you a teacher, or automatically mean that your methods are the best ones out there.. or the safest.
It does nothing except potentially mislead people.
A member is a member is a member.. if you build up a reputation, your work, and your posts will speak for themselves.. no amount of sigs will do anything to affect that. If you're proud of your work, and want to include something in your sig to draw attention to it, then feel free, but beyond that, there's no point in it.
Some members have titles given to them, typically it reflects a group that they work with, as a an attempt was partially made to identify those folks who work with various studios. I'm not 100% sure, but I beleive at least most of them are personally known to Adam (therefore proving the affiliation to that group). Eventually, perhaps, the titles will be changed to reflect various positions, but I'm not sure of that.
It was already mentioned here, but it's worth repeating... Mod's and other "positions" within the club are indications of duties. Yes, some positions may hold an element of power, but only to enforce some part of the charter, and/or interpret it to the best of their ability. They, however, are answerable to you, each other, and to the site administrator.
For example, a Moderator's duty is to follow the rules that everyone else has to follow, and help ensure that if someone strays from following the rules in their posts, that they fix them, warn them, or remove them, to keep the forums in working order. As long as they do that in a reasonable way, they are able to edit, delete or move posts in-order to achieve that goal. If it were a real "power", a mod could go through and delete every post made by an individual, just because they felt like it, and edit their posts to say something like: "look at me, I'm an idiot". Yes, they CAN do that, but that'd certainly cause a situation where they'd no longer be a moderator, because they proved unable to support the rules of the forums. In fact, that type of abuse would probably cause the mod in question to get banned.
Ranks are for the military.. we're a costume club that does the military thing for show, because we're in military costumes.. The rank thing might exist as an optional roleplaying thing, but it's not something the club needs.
I'm referring to the Club, not the Forums.
SpartanForever
Member
Ya, i dont really care either... but it sort of makes people feel less of you if your a low rank compared to a high, and dont say thats not true because it is. Everytime adam posts something its like "OMG the god has spoken!". Its sort of like COD 4 if you're a low rank you get booted from games and made fun of, just because it means your a noob... you get no respect and therefore never want to participate in the group. Its something Adama and the mods will have to think long and hars about. Honestly i dont know why we are evn discussing this since none of us are mods and we probably arent making a very big difference right now...
Deadguy
Well-Known Member
SpartanForever said:
You can't compare low ranks to high ranks because there is no rank. Adam is site admin, and carries a reputation due to creating this site for you to particiapate on, plus ultimate responsibility to pay for the site, etc..
Did you think perhaps that with rank, you'd outrank Adam?
Your discussions here ARE meaningful to the mods, and meaningful to the charter group. It's how we know what folks want, and also sometimes brings new things to the charter discussions. Without you guys, there IS no forum, club, or anything to moderate.
However, as far as member to member goes, or even member to moderator, it's all about your reputation. Everything you do creates an impact on the others here, that's what a reputation is about. If you post a lot, you're known for that, if you never post, you're an unknown entity, if you post a lot of garbage, you're known for spewing garbage, etc. It's a reputation, and there's no way to really "quantify" that in numbers of posts, or number of molds/cosutmes/etc made, nor a way to have someone else's personal opinion about quality, outweigh the opinions of those that know you by your reputation.
I shudder to think what MY reputation is here. lol
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It seems the whole point of "ranks" is so that some members can try to make themselves feel important. Fair enough but, I'd like to point out the only way you're going to get the type of online "respect" you seem to be craving is to stop posting and do some bloody work. If online kudos is what drives you, then you are in the wrong hobby. The likes of Belakor, MLC, Thorsoli, Vos, Spase, Sigma, Docbytes and numerous others (too many to list) have the right idea, they beaver away in their workshops making awesome props and costumes, then they are kind enough to put some posts up saying "hey guys, this is what I'm working on" sometimes they are kind enough to talk a bit about how they do it, do they demand some type of e-cookie? No, they dont need to and its not why they do it. Their work speaks for itself. Thats right kids, the respect you're after comes from the work you do, not from grandiose plans and vapour-ware. THAT is what this whole site is about. Its not a popularity contest. Begging for recognition through "rank" really just shows laziness. Its like you're jumping up and down saying "look at me, my post count is huge, and I folded a paper helmet! I demand a fancy avatar and boots of +10 purpleness! without doing any work.
Now, I'm locking this thread because what little usefulness it had, has long been outlived. The concept has been thoroughly examined from various view points, and found to be flawed. If another mod disagrees with my decision to lock it, by all means unlock it, and we can beat this poor old horse to a pancake.
Look at that, oligarchy in action
Your humble janitor
NZ-TK
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Primal Weyland
Well-Known Member
Personally, I believe that only the staff should begin with the silverware, while everyone else starts up with bronze or gold.
Meaning: our site staff are our Senior Officers - Adam would probably rack up as our highest-ranking 'active personnel' (meaning, a person who actually wears armor), along with Site VIPs such as the Bungie guys we have lurking around here automatically being bestowed with an Officer rank of high value. My initial thoughts would be to have Adam instated as a Colonel, and other staff ranks lurking between that and Lieutenant.
Other members would more than likely use the Enlisted ranks (recruit to Master Sergeant). Promotions would occur based upon armor quality, service within the forums, total time in service (TiS) and attendances at conventions, in the following manner:
<ul>[*]Promotion to Recruit upon registering with the 405th. Promotion to Apprentice and Apprentice Grade 2 at 6-month intervals, capped at Apprentice Grade 2 until armor is completed. Promotions for existing members based upon armor quality and existing TiS.[*]Promotion to Private upon completion of armor meeting 405th specifications.[*]Three months per rank for Enlisted members up to and including Master Sergeant (three years, nine months to complete Enlisted rankings), with six months from then on to complete Master Sergeant rank.[*]Four months per rank for Officers up to and including Strike Commander (four years, five months to complete Lower Officer ranks).[*]Accessibility to Higher Officer Ranks (Colonel and above) only available to convention attendees, at the level of one Higher Officer Rank per two convention attendances and six months TiS.[*]Convention attendance warrants automatic promotion to the value of one rank (perhaps a parade at the convention could be held for promotions).[*]Exemplary service may, from time to time, be rewarded with a promotion (the value of which would depend on the level of service).[*]Demotions may occur for poor behaviour. Poor forum conduct may warrant one rank removal - poor behaviour at conventions or more serious offences may warrant further measures.[/list]
I devised this system to prevent the 405th from getting too 'top heavy' with officers, and admittedly it needs tweaking, but it's a basis at least for the SPARTAN and Forum ranks. As for convention-going SPARTANs and Marines, the same might apply up to the Officer ranks - upon promotion to Lieutenant, a member might be required to create an Officer's Uniform. Then again, there have been SPARTAN officers (Kurt and Fred are two examples I recall to mind immediately), and so perhaps SPARTANs may be officers and in armor.
Meaning: our site staff are our Senior Officers - Adam would probably rack up as our highest-ranking 'active personnel' (meaning, a person who actually wears armor), along with Site VIPs such as the Bungie guys we have lurking around here automatically being bestowed with an Officer rank of high value. My initial thoughts would be to have Adam instated as a Colonel, and other staff ranks lurking between that and Lieutenant.
Other members would more than likely use the Enlisted ranks (recruit to Master Sergeant). Promotions would occur based upon armor quality, service within the forums, total time in service (TiS) and attendances at conventions, in the following manner:
<ul>[*]Promotion to Recruit upon registering with the 405th. Promotion to Apprentice and Apprentice Grade 2 at 6-month intervals, capped at Apprentice Grade 2 until armor is completed. Promotions for existing members based upon armor quality and existing TiS.[*]Promotion to Private upon completion of armor meeting 405th specifications.[*]Three months per rank for Enlisted members up to and including Master Sergeant (three years, nine months to complete Enlisted rankings), with six months from then on to complete Master Sergeant rank.[*]Four months per rank for Officers up to and including Strike Commander (four years, five months to complete Lower Officer ranks).[*]Accessibility to Higher Officer Ranks (Colonel and above) only available to convention attendees, at the level of one Higher Officer Rank per two convention attendances and six months TiS.[*]Convention attendance warrants automatic promotion to the value of one rank (perhaps a parade at the convention could be held for promotions).[*]Exemplary service may, from time to time, be rewarded with a promotion (the value of which would depend on the level of service).[*]Demotions may occur for poor behaviour. Poor forum conduct may warrant one rank removal - poor behaviour at conventions or more serious offences may warrant further measures.[/list]
I devised this system to prevent the 405th from getting too 'top heavy' with officers, and admittedly it needs tweaking, but it's a basis at least for the SPARTAN and Forum ranks. As for convention-going SPARTANs and Marines, the same might apply up to the Officer ranks - upon promotion to Lieutenant, a member might be required to create an Officer's Uniform. Then again, there have been SPARTAN officers (Kurt and Fred are two examples I recall to mind immediately), and so perhaps SPARTANs may be officers and in armor.
Spartan137
Well-Known Member
Well, that stack beats the crap out of mine. I would tone down the month count just a bit. 9 years to progress all the way to the top seems kind of harsh for a non-military fan organization. But I likes it! (Although it IS a Recruit Costume thread, we're a little off topic)...
I would go ahead and say go with a rank that is reasonable to your costume and don't expect any respect to come out of it. But be prepared to change once the charter goes through.
I would go ahead and say go with a rank that is reasonable to your costume and don't expect any respect to come out of it. But be prepared to change once the charter goes through.
Primal Weyland
Well-Known Member
Spartan137 said:
My system was intended to prevent people ranking up every other day and the entire forum having Officers within a few years. But we'll see.
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I think Primal has a good start on a rank system. In real life military (at least in the US) there is no apprentice. As for field promotions, I think those should be bestowed by a "meeting" of the site admins for proving yourself. This could be either by helping others above and beyond, creating new pep that is very popular, a "great" set of armor, advancing our main goal of armor making - be it a new technique or an improvement on something that exists already, molding something not done before, (insert your reason here).
LastSpartan
Sr Member
I'm totally agreeing with you Primal. Long times between ranks are good. We don't want everyone at the same rank...
Spartan137
Well-Known Member
Primal Weyland said:
I got that, and I have to say, good thinking! It's just that it seems like 9 years is a little harsh. I would personally rig it to about 6, but thats a personal opinion. But it kind of excludes those who just post and don't actually build.
I just thought of this. Maybe you could also attach a counter that, after a period of 1 year, looks at the # of posts for people who are Apprentice 2 and still w/o armor. They could go into a "Logistics Corps." of sorts. That way, all of those who are more theoretical and come up with good ideas and .PDO files could still rank up? There are a bunch of people on the forum who are well respected and havn't even started their armor yet.
Within the Log. Corps., the rank would be determined by word count per post and number of posts, rather than time on the site. Decent idea?
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not really. if you did a word count per post or a WCPP, and a number of post count or PC which would give you aPCWCPP, or a picwicpip if you saying it would not validate anything. you would get some joe shmoe who would just type stuff, elaborating the particular topic he was covering, be it halo or pb&j's, in to some crazy nonlinear rant just so he could pick up rank! now if you think then we would just have to read and count all his/her posts to make sure no halo flunkie gets promoted on some unwarrented basis you are surely wrong. Just imagine the sheer Hours of time it would take to read and count that stuff, besides there would be a need to create a basis for what would be a valid post worth counting, with criteria based on info, understandability, widespread helpfullness, and halo related!
^ btw i wrote all that to prove that the ranking system for a log. corps wouldnt be feasable and to show what alot of posts could look like if it was in place. Not trying to dash the logistics corps idea, as a matter of fact i think its a good idea.
now on to a thought about ranking.... if their are local chapters it should be done by vote. there would be like a top 2 or three ranks por company like a captain and a master sgt and a gunny, then at the district level...which would be voted on by the chapter leaders could be higher up officers like majors and lt col's, with the head district apointee being a col. then the regional leaders would be a lt general. and then the overall commander (president, commadant, leader, master, head honcho) would be the five star general. now i know its safe to assume that adam would be the boss man, but he might not want to be so forever so thats why i say a voting system should be in place.
and on a further note...this thread has deviated from recruit costumes so we should get back to that.
^ btw i wrote all that to prove that the ranking system for a log. corps wouldnt be feasable and to show what alot of posts could look like if it was in place. Not trying to dash the logistics corps idea, as a matter of fact i think its a good idea.
now on to a thought about ranking.... if their are local chapters it should be done by vote. there would be like a top 2 or three ranks por company like a captain and a master sgt and a gunny, then at the district level...which would be voted on by the chapter leaders could be higher up officers like majors and lt col's, with the head district apointee being a col. then the regional leaders would be a lt general. and then the overall commander (president, commadant, leader, master, head honcho) would be the five star general. now i know its safe to assume that adam would be the boss man, but he might not want to be so forever so thats why i say a voting system should be in place.
and on a further note...this thread has deviated from recruit costumes so we should get back to that.
charlie tuna
Member
I beg to differ, here is the first 3 rates in the US Navy as you can see there is an apprentice rating.tlither said:
Seaman Recruit
Seaman Apprentice
Seaman
and just for compleation sake, here's the rest of rates
Petty Officer Third Class
Petty Officer Second Class
Petty Officer First Class
Chief Petty Officer
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Master Chief Petty Officer
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
No one in the above list has a 'rank' all enlisted sailors have ratings, 'ranks' start at Ensign, the lowest officer rank.
So for recruit costumes the first 3 would be for navy costumes, for ground forces (marines)the lowest 3 would be
Private
Private First Class
Lance Corporal
Army
Specialist
Private First Class
Private
Private (Recruit)
These are all US rates and ranks, other countries will have different titles but are more or less the same.
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BlacRoseImmortal
Well-Known Member
I think Primal has the right idea for a ranking system. I personally was thinking that since we have people from all over the world, it would seem that in every state (US, UK, AUS, etc.) there should be a state system. Like, In florida US, have one as the leader (ex: Staff Sargeant) and the rest of us rank in His/Her platoon. This bring up the topic of Companies again, and i know this doesnt belong here, and I really dont think you guys know what im talking about lol. sorry.
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