Ranking discussion
- Thread starter Ice198
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Yes, for example, Doom only has like 800 posts or so, yet he's a moderator.
Is he the biggest poster? no.
Is he a top contributer? yes.
So he would have a high rank/position.
There's lots of new armorers that have huge talents, or have come up with huge ideas that don't have high post counts either.
But in no way do I discredit the high posters such as link/frost/xavier/SB they all contribute a lot by helping us all find our way.
Is he the biggest poster? no.
Is he a top contributer? yes.
So he would have a high rank/position.
There's lots of new armorers that have huge talents, or have come up with huge ideas that don't have high post counts either.
But in no way do I discredit the high posters such as link/frost/xavier/SB they all contribute a lot by helping us all find our way.
WheresDaChief
Active Member
Deadguy said:I think there's some confusion here between Ranks and Positions..
They're separate because the Positions are going to be either on a voting rotation or by appointment, and not a reflection of attaining rank. This means that if someone is in-charge of a unit, but get's voted-out, they fall back and become part of that unit as a regular member.
It's not a punishment, by any means, it just allows pro-active and popular members to move into Positions where they can do the most good for the club. The previous position holders are still eligible to get back into that position, or other ones, at a later date, or take a breather and continue on where they're most comfortable. Members have very little to do, in terms of duties outside of events, but Position holders can be very busy people, attempting to maintain the club, and/or get it into postion for future events, every one is a volunteer.
As far as member ranks go.. we might have SOMETHING, but I can't see it being used for anything other than for order during drills at events (which I really hope we do), or role-play stuff. It could be based on participation and merely reflect how active you've been in the club, but as far as "Hey private! go get my slippers!" it ain't happening. We aren't a military group, we're just a costume club that is ordered in a similar fashion to be as effective as possible at doing what the group, as a whole, wants the group to do.. Organization of volunteers.
The Position folks will need to be followed if the club is to function though. That shouldn't be TOO hard to figure out, and again, those orders are in terms of trying to keep order.. ("Hey, quit punching that guy! we're trying to look official here"), not to maintain command pressure ("You eyeballing me son?!","Stand at attention and guard that bucket until I releive you.. there better not be ANY water missing when I return!") unless it's part of a skit or something that you volunteered to participate in.
It shouldn't be too hard to follow the postion folks though.. Kinda' like listening to the Mods in the forum, except even easier because most of them will have been folks that your unit has voted to put in there, or appointed by someone your unit voted for. Heck, there's even a system being designed that ensures position folks don't abuse their postions.
Other than that, there's just following basic rules, being respectful of others, and participating, as long as you're doing that, noone's going to tell you to do anything.
Couldn't have said it any clearer myself and you've totally ruined my plans to tell the n00bs (which I am still haha) to fetch me some prop wash.
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Deadguy
Well-Known Member
xomanowar said:
That's cool and all, but there are no members of the 405th at this moment. Membership on the forums is not membership in the club. If there's any members right this moment, it's just Adam.
Once a charter's at least partially up, and membership is officially declared to be open, folks can apply for membership at that point.
Your unofficial usage of the 405th logo on seemingly official business is kinda' something we'd like to avoid, because in THIS case, you've put folks on a fake 405th roster, and assigned them ranks. How would anyone know that it's not part of the official 405th roster? It may seem like an innocent issue, but could actually create issues if someone starts doing something like asking for membership fees for a part of the club that doesn't exist. It would work, and likely get the club shut down.
We have to be VERY careful with stuff like that. At the moment there's nothing set-up to handle it, but once there is, it would become a club officer's duty to send you a cease and desist order.. not a legal thing, just a friendly thing to say you either announce that the roster is unofficial in a prominent postion on that page, or please don't use the logo.
If it persisted, we'd actually HAVE to boot you out of the club, and if it continued after that, there are legal prosecution requirements in-order to stop anyone from stealing a logo for "seemingly official business".
Or we could just give up the club and allow you guys to just make up random stuff and claim it all to be official while folks cheat other folks, and argue over who get's to be supreme commander of all the galaxies today..
(which.. by the way.. is me.. I called it first!)A club is an organization,.. to organize is to set up systems for keeping things in order, in such a way that they can be maintained, grow, and be inviting to potential members. In order to do that, someone (or something) has to lead the way, and set-up guidelines/rules to follow. The opposite... an anarchist approach would just be to do whatever you wanted, but of course, there'd be no reason to call it a club, because it would have no way to sustain it's own organization, you'd also have whatever logo you want, and everyone would be kings of everything.
Every usage of any club logo has to be considered Official, or Unofficial.. Official means that you were given official permission to use it, either directly, or through guidelines that apply to anyone using it. Unofficial means that you're doing your own thing with it. By all means, have fun, roleplay, set up XBL rosters, or whatever, but unless it's officially recognized business, it has to remain unofficial, and state clearly, that it's unofficial.
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I think we shouldn't have more Ranks but we should get a thing on are profiles that shows xp when you make a mold of a helmet and show it to the pudlic or adam and you get 25 Xp and it depends on what you make like a full set of armor would be 100 xp so noods and some Veterans will not get inspired to post unnecessary but make armor.
SPARTAN II
Sr Member
Deadguy said:That's cool and all, but there are no members of the 405th at this moment. Membership on the forums is not membership in the club. If there's any members right this moment, it's just Adam.
Once a charter's at least partially up, and membership is officially declared to be open, folks can apply for membership at that point.
Your unofficial usage of the 405th logo on seemingly official business is kinda' something we'd like to avoid, because in THIS case, you've put folks on a fake 405th roster, and assigned them ranks. How would anyone know that it's not part of the official 405th roster? It may seem like an innocent issue, but could actually create issues if someone starts doing something like asking for membership fees for a part of the club that doesn't exist. It would work, and likely get the club shut down.
We have to be VERY careful with stuff like that. At the moment there's nothing set-up to handle it, but once there is, it would become a club officer's duty to send you a cease and desist order.. not a legal thing, just a friendly thing to say you either announce that the roster is unofficial in a prominent postion on that page, or please don't use the logo.
If it persisted, we'd actually HAVE to boot you out of the club, and if it continued after that, there are legal prosecution requirements in-order to stop anyone from stealing a logo for "seemingly official business".
Or we could just give up the club and allow you guys to just make up random stuff and claim it all to be official while folks cheat other folks, and argue over who get's to be supreme commander of all the galaxies today..
A club is an organization,.. to organize is to set up systems for keeping things in order, in such a way that they can be maintained, grow, and be inviting to potential members. In order to do that, someone (or something) has to lead the way, and set-up guidelines/rules to follow. The opposite... an anarchist approach would just be to do whatever you wanted, but of course, there'd be no reason to call it a club, because it would have no way to sustain it's own organization, you'd also have whatever logo you want, and everyone would be kings of everything.
Every usage of any club logo has to be considered Official, or Unofficial.. Official means that you were given official permission to use it, either directly, or through guidelines that apply to anyone using it. Unofficial means that you're doing your own thing with it. By all means, have fun, roleplay, set up XBL rosters, or whatever, but unless it's officially recognized business, it has to remain unofficial, and state clearly, that it's unofficial.
Very well put, Deadguy! I agree that until the club charter has been at least somewhat finalized, it sorta defeats the purpose of inventing all of this stuff if it doesn't have official approval (and it's pretty much a given not all of it will get approved) or can be used in an official capacity...
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Spartan137
Well-Known Member
A quick referance to the above posts:
Yes, this is entirely uninportant UNTIL the charter is somewhat finalized. But that doesn't mean we can't throw around ideas
For use AFTER the charter goes through and for use in the GROUP:
Why not use a ranking system that just takes advantage of both the Post count and armor quality, sorta like Ice's, but just more in depth?
REQ.---RANK
0 Posts---Recruit
1 - 15 Posts---Private
16-25 Posts---PFC
26-35 Posts---Corporal
1 Month Past Cpl.---Sergeant
2 Months Past Cpl.---Staff Sergeant
3 Month Past Cpl.---Master Sergeant
Simple Armor*---2nd Lieutenant
Inter. Armor*---1st Lieutenant
Adv. Armor*---Captain
Specialist Group Member**---Major
District/State Commander*---Colonel
Regional Commander*---Brigadier General
National Commander*---Lieutenant General
Moderators*---General
Adam---General Of The Army
*Bypasses all prievious ranks
**I.E. Veterans, Innovation and Design, Weapons Master, Wiring and Telecom, Vehicle Specialist, etc
This ranking system is of Army style. I might make a Navy / Marine Corp. style if people like it.
And for judging the quality of armor, maybe a new feature could be added to the site that posts a number of pictures and Adam, as well as a number of mods vote on the armor's ranking? Just a thought?
Commanders are based off the 501st's layout.
As well as the ranking system, there should also be awards that are given for exceptional things, such as community service, exceptional armor, possibly a popularity index, getting coffee from Starbucks in armor, etc. The awards should be based on the UNSC's medals and awards and can be given by Colonels and higher.
Yes, this is entirely uninportant UNTIL the charter is somewhat finalized. But that doesn't mean we can't throw around ideas
For use AFTER the charter goes through and for use in the GROUP:
Why not use a ranking system that just takes advantage of both the Post count and armor quality, sorta like Ice's, but just more in depth?
REQ.---RANK
0 Posts---Recruit
1 - 15 Posts---Private
16-25 Posts---PFC
26-35 Posts---Corporal
1 Month Past Cpl.---Sergeant
2 Months Past Cpl.---Staff Sergeant
3 Month Past Cpl.---Master Sergeant
Simple Armor*---2nd Lieutenant
Inter. Armor*---1st Lieutenant
Adv. Armor*---Captain
Specialist Group Member**---Major
District/State Commander*---Colonel
Regional Commander*---Brigadier General
National Commander*---Lieutenant General
Moderators*---General
Adam---General Of The Army
*Bypasses all prievious ranks
**I.E. Veterans, Innovation and Design, Weapons Master, Wiring and Telecom, Vehicle Specialist, etc
This ranking system is of Army style. I might make a Navy / Marine Corp. style if people like it.
And for judging the quality of armor, maybe a new feature could be added to the site that posts a number of pictures and Adam, as well as a number of mods vote on the armor's ranking? Just a thought?
Commanders are based off the 501st's layout.
As well as the ranking system, there should also be awards that are given for exceptional things, such as community service, exceptional armor, possibly a popularity index, getting coffee from Starbucks in armor, etc. The awards should be based on the UNSC's medals and awards and can be given by Colonels and higher.
There is simply no purpose for ranks on a forum. When the charter is finalized, I imagine there will be some type of thing similar to 501 command structure, like GML's XO's etc but remember, in the 501 those ranks don't really mean anything more than administrative and organization rolls and I suspect the same would apply to this club . Its not like when I meet the GML of my garrison I have to say "sir, yes sir" follow orders and do push ups. Its a costume club based on a fictional military, not a real military. Assigning ranks in the forum would simply lead people to believe their is some type of power structure that simply isn't there and foster the misguided belief that your post count is somehow indicative of knowledge/skill/other. The only power structure that exists on a forum is the admin team, who browse posts, when we find something we can fix, we fix it. The same rules apply to everyone, If I went and posted a personal attack on a member one of the other mods would most likey whack me with a ban hammer, just like they would anyone else (except maybe Adam, I'm pretty sure you cant ban the root admin...I'm watching that guy though...he's skating on thin ice...lol)
Spartan137
Well-Known Member
Well, I see your point, that ranking can just cause issues.
But the greatness of it is is that it gives you a sense of the people who know what they are doing. For example, if someone is still ranked as a Master Sergeant, and you've known them for monthes, then they obviously don't have armor. The ranking system gives you a quick refrence as to how good they are. For example, a noob goes into a thread seeking help, and gets two responses. One is from a Staff Sergeant, and he seems to know what he is doing and another is from a Captain. Which does he listen to? Hopefully, he will listen to both, but it may be necessary to ignore the Staff Sergeant and focus on the Captain for help.
That and this form of ranking is much more thorough than the current one and it lists people with specializations. If I were looking for someone who REALLY knew how to wire a suit, I would track down a Major in Electrical and Telecom (lights, coolent, and radios) and request assistance from him. If I needed a really good M7 SMG prop, I would track down a Major in Weaponry. If I needed a special Pepakura file that isn't available anywhere else, I'll track down a Major in Pepakura. So on and so forth.
But I can see this failing were this "power" goes to somone's head, sort of like the current Halo 3 ranking. "Sure, your a Brigadier, but I definatly just no-scoped you..."
But I would love input from more people. Don't leave me hangin on the ends of these threads!
But the greatness of it is is that it gives you a sense of the people who know what they are doing. For example, if someone is still ranked as a Master Sergeant, and you've known them for monthes, then they obviously don't have armor. The ranking system gives you a quick refrence as to how good they are. For example, a noob goes into a thread seeking help, and gets two responses. One is from a Staff Sergeant, and he seems to know what he is doing and another is from a Captain. Which does he listen to? Hopefully, he will listen to both, but it may be necessary to ignore the Staff Sergeant and focus on the Captain for help.
That and this form of ranking is much more thorough than the current one and it lists people with specializations. If I were looking for someone who REALLY knew how to wire a suit, I would track down a Major in Electrical and Telecom (lights, coolent, and radios) and request assistance from him. If I needed a really good M7 SMG prop, I would track down a Major in Weaponry. If I needed a special Pepakura file that isn't available anywhere else, I'll track down a Major in Pepakura. So on and so forth.
But I can see this failing were this "power" goes to somone's head, sort of like the current Halo 3 ranking. "Sure, your a Brigadier, but I definatly just no-scoped you..."
But I would love input from more people. Don't leave me hangin on the ends of these threads!
So the purpose of your ranking system is to label people based on their skills to help noobs identify who can spoon feed them? I think its just going to create a culture of laziness on the forum far worse than it already is. If you want to find out about wiring lights, do some research, its not very hard, instead of asking someone to tell you how. Forums are great for sharing knowledge, but they should be the last place you ask questions, not the first. Lets say Im " Gunnery Sergeant -3d modelling and sculpture" because I've made a few files for people and I've done a little sculpting, If you came to me asking for my help on something and I could tell you hadn't researched it, my response probably wouldn't be very polite
I've been noticing some people getting special titles... like the legendary armor guys have the "Legendary" title which i dont think is very fair because aparently all it take is you making an great helmet/making a good helmet and living in Texas to move up around here.
"Design and Innovation" much NZ?
NZ-TK said:
"Design and Innovation" much NZ?
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What do you mean move up and how it this not fair? the legendary guys have those titles cause they are a team of professional prop makers working together on a project called legendary. They've also been making super high quality props for years, and are well... Legendary.
I have no idea how I got my title, I didn't ask for it, I assume Adam put it there, possibly because of some work I did for the club, either way its not a rank.
I have no idea how I got my title, I didn't ask for it, I assume Adam put it there, possibly because of some work I did for the club, either way its not a rank.
Spartan137
Well-Known Member
It's not a rank. It's more of a position held by those willing to assist those who require assistance w/ their project. It would be completly voluntary.
But in your sense, I see the flaw within my argument.
The few whom wouldn't abuse the system would be greatly outnumbered by those who are downright lazy. But you have to realize, it would greatly benefit the more advanced members of the society greatly. Maybe their would be a sort of "list of issues" that each Specialist would be given that would list the most common issues people have (shock). If you can't locate an issue, you would then be allowed to send the Specialist an issue request, were they will hopefully offer some assistance.
I'll even admit that I was once at the point of not searching, but my 5 monthes of doing stuff on forums have taught me a great deal. You need just a slight bit more faith from those who have just joined. Hell, I joined 3 monthes ago.
Actually, maybe the Specialists could be given a blog where they can post a set of instructions and lists of parts, etc, where people can go to learn and get ideas from.
Well, in regards to the rest of the list, are there any issues aside from the conflict from trying to "level up"? I think it's fine aside from the Specialist ranks.
But in your sense, I see the flaw within my argument.
The few whom wouldn't abuse the system would be greatly outnumbered by those who are downright lazy. But you have to realize, it would greatly benefit the more advanced members of the society greatly. Maybe their would be a sort of "list of issues" that each Specialist would be given that would list the most common issues people have (shock). If you can't locate an issue, you would then be allowed to send the Specialist an issue request, were they will hopefully offer some assistance.
I'll even admit that I was once at the point of not searching, but my 5 monthes of doing stuff on forums have taught me a great deal. You need just a slight bit more faith from those who have just joined. Hell, I joined 3 monthes ago.
Actually, maybe the Specialists could be given a blog where they can post a set of instructions and lists of parts, etc, where people can go to learn and get ideas from.
Well, in regards to the rest of the list, are there any issues aside from the conflict from trying to "level up"? I think it's fine aside from the Specialist ranks.
Spartan137
Well-Known Member
Damn. Why didn't I think of that!?
Just run a trial system around. If it fails, just get rid of it.
Hell, you could implement it here on the forums for a while, just to get a sense of what it'll do.
Of course, it would only be temporary and wouldn't be present on the forums once the charter rolls out.
Just run a trial system around. If it fails, just get rid of it.
Hell, you could implement it here on the forums for a while, just to get a sense of what it'll do.
Of course, it would only be temporary and wouldn't be present on the forums once the charter rolls out.
Belakor
Well-Known Member
Xavier said:
Was wondering when someone was going to bring this up
Personally I don't think it's a good idea unless you're* prepared to rank everyone and/or deal with the crap that comes your way.
At the end of the day I don't really care, it doesn't bother me if my "rank" says Advanced Member or Fiberglass Monkey because, it's just a forum on the internet full of people that I'll probably never meet (though I will try, D*Con '09 maybe
)... kinda like Recon armor, would it be cool? sure, will it change my life? probably not.Just my opinion of course
*You're being the people in charge that get hit with the complaining etc.
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