Drawn away?

tsau mia

Member
I second all of that, and I would be willing to help implement any new changes, even if it's just rewriting important topics.
 

JBetts97

Well-Known Member
Guilty as charged on the undersuit thread, :s (awkward silence...)

I understand what you mean. Each section should probably only have five stickies at most. Build threads should be prioritized over "discussion" threads. Same with progress threads. QUOTE]

I am guilty of that. I have stopped making build threads because of this issue. I sepnd most of my time in the general discussion section and the Halo discussion section.

It would help us if we saw constructive comments, rather than criticism or rants. Its being discussed on how we will go about fixing things. Its not easy to bring people into the mess before there is a plan on how to clean it up, and we feel that we'll cause more damage than good. Something is in the works, and yes we are still here and we do still care.
It is good to know that you guys have taken note of this issue. Constructive comments-

Find somthing that resolves the issue with the noobs. I still think a noob section (different from the one we have right now) should be put into effect . They shouldnt be able to have access to the full site until they have had a certain number of posts (Like the RPF)

Thats my 2 cents .

Thanks man,

Jacob
 

Spitfire22V

Well-Known Member
I fully agree with just about everything Ventrue said. The one thing I disagree with is not having a Noob forum anymore.

I feel that regardless of what we do to increase noob knowledge and reduce useless threads, there will always be some of those "pests", or as Ventrue put it: the noobapocalypsies, 12 year olds, gimmeattituders, lowqualityposters etc. :)

So I think it would be beneficial to at least keep all of that in one forum to not "contaminate" all of the others.

Just my quick opinion. :cool
 

seaninja

Well-Known Member
Ask IndyMogul to take down the video on Youtube. I know it does explicitly say that making armour is a lot of work and it also says that the armour that is shown costs more than the advertised 100$, but the general message it conveys is that armour can be made quickly and cheaply. I think that is a major incentive for poor kids to join the forums, and to join with false expectations.
I like that idea, but they should make a new one to replace it. It should be one that explains that it is not as easy as it looks, and it should have the new techniques we use. It would turn the people who want instant results away, but attract the people who want it enough in.
That's just my two cents.

I feel that regardless of what we do to increase noob knowledge and reduce useless threads, there will always be some of those "pests", or as Ventrue put it: the noobapocalypsies, 12 year olds, gimmeattituders, lowqualityposters etc.
I like the term Derp Noob better lol. All joking aside, you are probably right. I don't think that we will ever see a complete end to all the "pests".
One thing that I try to keep in mind is that we were all noobs once. I hate to admit it, but I was a "derp noob" at first. I remember my first post was about assault rifles and well..... I don't really like to talk about that subject all that much. My point is that with some time, the pests can learn that this hobby takes a lot of time, effort, and money like I did.
 

ventrue

Well-Known Member
So I think it would be beneficial to at least keep all of that in one forum to not "contaminate" all of the others.
Interesting. Going the containment-way is a possibility of course: Further restricting posting privileges, and totally keeping new members in the Noob Forum. But that raises the question how somebody is supposed to collect a few hundred posts to become Infantryman if he doesn't have the opportunity to post something meaningful in the first place. Doing this would create an elite circle with virtually no new members and zero input from the outside, while a growing number of new members do their own thing in their own room.

I actually thought of it the exact other way: Instead of keeping to themselves and copying each other's lolspeak, noobs should rather join the "real" forums and learn from the more seasoned members - and "learn" in a broader sense that you might think. 12 year old kids are still WIPs themselves after all, so guess what showing them lolroflz all the time will do to them...
Basically, less incentive to "rank up" means less incentive to post pointless two-word responses ("[garbage picture] - 'whoa great work man!!!'"). Compliments or encouragement never mean anything when they're obviously not honest and therefore are a quality killer. I would even consider showing the Classifieds to every newly registered member (without posting rights), simply to demonstrate that they aren't missing anything and have no reason to spam. Not sure though if this might have any legal or other side effects that I'm not aware of. Not showing new members the Classifieds might be beneficial because some of them would certainly spam those who offer something there with lowball offers, or because complete strangers might not be completely trustworthy (recasting, fraud, etc.). But then again, it's everyone's own responsibility to choose who they deal with and what they want for their stuff, isn't it?
The most fiendishly clever way I can think of is creating an empty Classifieds decoy forum everybody can see and forgetting to tell anybody that they need to meet certain requirements to see the real one. But that would require those who know to keep their mouths shut.
 

seaninja

Well-Known Member
The most fiendishly clever way I can think of is creating an empty Classifieds decoy forum everybody can see and forgetting to tell anybody that they need to meet certain requirements to see the real one. But that would require those who know to keep their mouths shut.
That is fiendishly clever... I like it lol.
 

CoolC

Well-Known Member
I have a better idea. I think restricting new "noobs" to 405th is out of the question. They will need to earn their priviledges. One option that we could think of is by earning their way up. Earning it is quite easy.

1) If a new user is just a lurker and have not signed up as member, they will get the regular homepage. They can't post anything.

2) When a noob first joined, they will get a different homepage. The homepage contains welcome video, basic knowledge and some stickies. The noobs must go through these several videos/tutorials then they get level up. The next level will then show the dos/don'ts in forum. After they read them, they level up again. The next time they open 405th, they will get the regular homepage. This way they are forced to read before they post. Mechanically we can do it, but there is no way to know the noobs actually view the video and read the stickies.

If the new noob post questions that can be answered in the stickies, we know right away that the noob will not be a "quality" noob.
 

Nintendude

Well-Known Member
I don't think any further restrictions on the Noob privledges need to be any more strict. Registration just needs to be off and on at times, give the current Noobs time to learn before opening the flood gates to et more in, right now the Noob flood gates are wide open and the more than come in the worse it will be here. If you close registration off and on it gives the current people time to learn.
 

SchizophrenicMC

Well-Known Member
I don't think any further restrictions on the Noob privledges need to be any more strict. Registration just needs to be off and on at times, give the current Noobs time to learn before opening the flood gates to et more in, right now the Noob flood gates are wide open and the more than come in the worse it will be here. If you close registration off and on it gives the current people time to learn.
I think both should be established, honestly. Noobpocalypses can be prevented if we literally force them to lurk moar.
 

tsau mia

Member
I have a better idea. I think restricting new "noobs" to 405th is out of the question. They will need to earn their priviledges. One option that we could think of is by earning their way up. Earning it is quite easy.

1) If a new user is just a lurker and have not signed up as member, they will get the regular homepage. They can't post anything.

2) When a noob first joined, they will get a different homepage. The homepage contains welcome video, basic knowledge and some stickies. The noobs must go through these several videos/tutorials then they get level up. The next level will then show the dos/don'ts in forum. After they read them, they level up again. The next time they open 405th, they will get the regular homepage. This way they are forced to read before they post. Mechanically we can do it, but there is no way to know the noobs actually view the video and read the stickies.

If the new noob post questions that can be answered in the stickies, we know right away that the noob will not be a "quality" noob.
I think this is an excellent idea. If it so happens that noob is not "quality", then they get a second chance and are knocked back down to "basic training". If they go through "basic" a second time and still don't get it right: well, the banhammer would be quite appropriate.
 

Liq

Well-Known Member
Ive been a member here for a while now. Ive seen this "issue" get discussed off and on for a LONG time. I myself dont post much here due to a lot of the same reasons most have stated already. I have worked profesionaly doing props and costumes for the film and television industry so I am far from a hobbyist in the sense of building these things, and currently run my own bussiness making props and costumes for private commission. I deal with these materials on a daily basis and day and day out make these things till my eyes bleed resin. I have been on prop/costume forums for YEARS, and have to say that this one is unique in that its organization of information is scattered, and highly redundant. The amount of user posts "stacks" the threads in such a way that a LOT of posts get buried instantly. A lot of useful posts and info is lost becaue of the "stacking"
I also have very little interest in posting and sharing because ironicaly, here on a Halo related costume board I get the LEAST amount of response or feedback on the work I share. On other sites I can post my progress, get feedback, and adult grown up discussion about techniques, methods, experiences. I also tire of reading highly innacurate suppositions. High School boasts of "ULTIMATE" or "MOST ACCURATE" from amature home enthusiasts. The "Elite" section is kind of a slap in the face personaly. I think its highly biased on who gets put there. I would prefer my build be there so I can particiapte more with people who do things on the production levels I do. But honestly I think maybe ten people at best are even aware I have a build on here becaue my posts are immediately lost to posts about Daft Punk helmets, or builds that never get past the mental masturbation stage..."I am going to build the best Jorge EVER!" yeah right. I notice that there is less interest in threads that use traditional building methods. More interest to threads purporting to make bubble gum pet hair work instead of being able to afford some damn resin and sand paper. I bet if I said my armor was made for 5dollars and entirely out of mashed potatoes, then people would flock to the thread in the hopes that they can have a movie quality suit for the cost of bag of flour. Its the pervasive attitude that there simply must be a way to get a full suit for no money or effort that litters this place with useless threads. Other boards are not run this way. I occasionaly will post relevant progress pics when I have something done, but have little interest in sharing when the posts are ignored. I laugh when I read boasts like "no one has made an accurate undersuit yet" from someone whos undersuit post is filled with mental masturbation and no actual production. Several have made very nice undersuits, my own is well underway and has progress pics and personally rocks over the pges of masturbation talk about how someone WANTS to make a suit. But only maybe three people even know I already have molds of MY undersuit parts which I would even be willing to make copies for other members, but hey lets all flock to the masturbation thread about it that has no molds or cast pieces ready to share cause its easier to jerk off thinking about making something than actually making it.
So small wonder that the place has lost its luster? That veteran and or experienced costumers go elsewhere? Its very easy for a grown up to look at the kiddie playground and just go to grownup boards. I share Pep techniques, Sewing methods, sculpting and molding tutorials, materials vendor lists on several other costume boards, but it would be a waste here, which is a shame. I would love if someone made a Halo costume forum, becaue if it existed I would love to share my work there. For now I get a LOT more out of non Halo related boards for sharing the Halo related projects I do, alongside my regualr customer projects.
I agree with you 100%, and as I mentioned there are SO MANY members who should have work in the elite section yet all I see are the same 2 or 3 threads on there get bumped over, and over, and over. I saw several suits when I signed up here and when I came back last year for my suits redo that just got overlooked. It just seems if you don't self bump your own threads 10,000 with redundant comments or more of the same pics then you get pretty much zero recognition.

I feel as though EVERY finished suit that has a certain level of quality should be in the elite section. It takes serious dedication to finish a suit, let alone have one at the level that SEVERAL of the members here have done. I have won national contests with my suits, yet I don't think either of my WIP threads made it past 10 or so pages because I wouldn't spam pics or dumb comments. Am I a little butthurt that I never got considered for elite? yup a little but I get TONS of comments and PM's via Youtube, and that is why I spend more time there discussing costumes than here.
 

Drgnfyre4

Member
I agree with you 100%, and as I mentioned there are SO MANY members who should have work in the elite section yet all I see are the same 2 or 3 threads on there get bumped over, and over, and over. I saw several suits when I signed up here and when I came back last year for my suits redo that just got overlooked. It just seems if you don't self bump your own threads 10,000 with redundant comments or more of the same pics then you get pretty much zero recognition.

I feel as though EVERY finished suit that has a certain level of quality should be in the elite section. It takes serious dedication to finish a suit, let alone have one at the level that SEVERAL of the members here have done. I have won national contests with my suits, yet I don't think either of my WIP threads made it past 10 or so pages because I wouldn't spam pics or dumb comments. Am I a little butthurt that I never got considered for elite? yup a little but I get TONS of comments and PM's via Youtube, and that is why I spend more time there discussing costumes than here.
Apparently There are things "in the works" that might alleviate the issue of build threads being buried, and thus quality work being ignored. I think you put things more concisely than I did which apparently got my post "dismissed" as a rant. The level of ones finished work speaks more volumes than the credit given online anyways. Regardless of what anyone says implimenting ways of showing WORK would improve a lot, as opposed to loads and loads of "discussion" threads. People can learn more from seeing WORK than constant circular discussion rehashing the same cost cutting fantasies. This isn't a rant but an actual observation with suggestion. Please note, problem cited and suggestion of possible route to improve things.
 
(sigh)Here gos nothing (runs into the flames).

First off this same thread comes up every so many months ,it has many names but I refer to them as the rant/I haz idez t0 fx 405z/letting off steam/flame war thread.I may not have 500 posts but ive been here a little while,so please don't kill me :/....Ive been here before.

1)the Inovations are gone:I don't call it innovations I call them gamechangers.And yes there out there every where, you just have to look realy hard. Exp.Hughs chest core file was a gamechanger for the ODST world.(It helped me ALOT LOL)just cuz there hasnt been anything huge lately dosnt mean 405th is becoming stagnant or something,There could be a gamechanger tomorrow for all we know.Its what keeps bringing us back everytime ;)

2)Moderators=lazy:Absolute bull...End of discusion

3)OMG ITS THE NOOBZZZ:no matter what there will always be that little noob that pushes all of are buttons and ticks us off so much that it makes us dislike the whole lot of em (I was at one time:(,BUT I repented of my noob retardedness)Lets face it we were all of us ONCE a noob,No matter how the compilcated or ingenous schemes you come up with to "screen" through the new noobs the bad flame war staters/CAN I HAZ ARMR noobs will find a way to get in.

4)Foam armr=:( pep? : (Shrugs) its "the new thing" everybody likes "new".Im kinda right in the middle on this one because I just print out pep and trace it on cardbourd and put it together (Its more structurely sound as well as its great because if something doesnt look right I can free hand it :p)I think ill leave this one at that since I realy don't know much on the subject,BECAUSE YOUR NEVER SOPPOSED TO TALK ABOUT THINGS YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT...LOL (wink wink,Nudge nudge)

5)The elite forum biased: Longshot got in and that was his FIRST build,As well as that NCR ranger dude.And no bumping is not what gets you in the elite forums,its what you make thats stands out above the rest.Exp.A realy game accurate elite (alien) build is more likely to get in the elite section more that MRK VI build (its gona be purple)lol.Honestly not to be mean people but this site has alot of "average"armor builds(I should know all of mine are :/) that look Awesome,but there are very few that truly strive for all out excelence,And yousaly you find those projects in the elite forum ;)

BTW no Meaness inteaded Liq but I could take my worst suit and could propaly win the costume contest in my whole county:( (no hard feelings)

6)=Creepy number :)O

7)if there are any more subjects that I forgot about and you want retarded and witty coments about im all ears and always nears (that kinda of rimes :/ ) O and yes the writing is atroushus,SORRY I CANT HELP THAT IM A TARD.And lastly as my signature says I always will have a place in my heart for this site,that was my first and best internet home away from home.

BTW......Don't ban me please ;(
 

Liq

Well-Known Member
(sigh)Here gos nothing (runs into the flames).





2)Moderators=lazy:Absolute bull...End of discusion



5)The elite forum biased: Longshot got in and that was his FIRST build,As well as that NCR ranger dude.And no bumping is not what gets you in the elite forums,its what you make thats stands out above the rest.Exp.A realy game accurate elite (alien) build is more likely to get in the elite section more that MRK VI build (its gona be purple)lol.Honestly not to be mean people but this site has alot of "average"armor builds(I should know all of mine are :/) that look Awesome,but there are very few that truly strive for all out excelence,And yousaly you find those projects in the elite forum ;)

BTW no Meaness inteaded Liq but I could take my worst suit and could propaly win the costume contest in my whole county:( (no hard feelings)
This is exactly why I feel the elite section is a sham...I know what a quality suit is, and I have seen so many overlooked...There is a pep based suit that's constantly bumped on top in elite section. I have seen plenty of suits that are of the same, or better quality than this suit yet they are not in the elite section. Why is this? That's all I'm wondering...I feel like if that suit wasn't self bumped so many times it would have never been considered for elite, and if that suit is elite worthy then what are the requirements to get in elite? Maybe the elite section should just be done away with? Many of the vets with real skills have just got lost in the shuffle of mediocrity and we find it irritating.

and not to sound like a jerk, but unless you've placed in a contest with several hundred entrants I don't think you can really start spouting off opinion about your suits doing this or that.
 

Spitfire22V

Well-Known Member
I think you put things more concisely than I did which apparently got my post "dismissed" as a rant. .
I think your first post was "dismissed" not because it was a long rant (though that probably didn't help), but because it was a thinly disguised personal attack, and little to no constructive criticism. But I agree with you that I would like to see more tangible work being shown, and less discussion of what people are doing or what they plan on doing.

Also, this is why I think that things like the Elite forum are always a bad idea. They will always breed anger due to everyone having different standards for quality. If I'm not mistaken, at the moment, to get into the Elite forum, your work has to be noticed by a Moderator or Admin, and they have to deem your work good enough. However, (not to discredit their judgement), they are one person, and they can't possibly get to every single armor build just to ensure they don't miss one.

While I personally wouldn't mind seeing the Elite section gone for those reasons, I do recognize that it does tend to lift morale and inspire people. Ideally, I think that everyone's work should be able/allowed to be judged for the Elite forum, with the difference being that the entire forum gets to vote on whether it does get in or not. Then the judgement isn't up to one person, but to that of the community as a whole.
 

Ruze789

Well-Known Member
I would like to say a couple things about the Elite Section...

Personally I thought we were doing away with that section, so I hadn't moved anything in there in quite some time. At one point discussions were happening that a Top 25 Projects page on the Front Page would replace the Elite subforum. The discussion stopped and nothing happened, but I thought it might still move ahead so didn't think anything new needed to go into Elite.

There are no guidelines or requirements to be in there, it simply has to be good. If a thread gets noticed by one of the Staff, it goes in there. Unfortunately there are scores of threads that have amazing builds in them, and while I'm sure many may be of amazing quality, sometimes things get looked over. Since there are no standards, no nominating process (aside from other members saying "Elite! Elite" inside a build thread), there's nothing to ensure that every project gets looked at for consideration.

I think really it's just a matter of what catches our eye. My personal obsession is with Carter & the Commando helmet, so I will 10 times out of 10 look at a thread that mentions Carter and have moved one thread into Elite that I felt did a superb job with the helmet.

But in the 45 months that I've been here I have seen hundreds of Mk VI builds of every skill level. I've seen hundreds of Mk VI helmets, recon helmets, ODSTs, and marines. Sometimes I skim through threads, or occasionally I might skip them altogether, because I feel like I've just seen so many.

But maybe if people feel personally insulted that their build hasn't been noticed for being a AAA build, or there is resentment that they don't agree with the judgment call that one of the Staff makes, the system should be looked at. There could be a thread that nominates projects to be moved, which could be voted on or at least brings threads to the attention of the staff. I'm still not sure what's happening with that section but for now I'll keep my eyes peeled wide open for threads that should be included in there.
 

Nintendude

Well-Known Member
I think there honestly needs to be nominations frommembers for a thread to be in the Elite section and a nomination thread kind of thing made to find new moderators once per year like elections. Where the current mod could stay in the position orsomeone else could be nominated to take the place. There are a couple of mods that we have right now that I don't think I've even seen them in what feels like forever.
 
Liq...First I don't think your comment in any way,shape or form was jerky at all :) .No I can't say from exprerence that ive been there,But I agree with ruze there is just way to many Mk VI and ODST suits to keep up with.Im sorry you feel like youve been over looked,but I think every body whos made a realy good suite thinks they deserve the recongition of "ELITE" status.Mabey your Mk VI was overlooked,but do you honestly need your thread put in the elite just so you know its good.I think some of my costumes that I did in my not so 405th active days were good ,But I Didn't care I was contempt with the feeling that I did a good job and had fun.Because do we do this hobby for fun or do we do it for glory?Sorry liq if I have affended you in any way,shape or form :(

Maby we should do away with the elite section in the first place and just make a done section.That way you don't need to make 100% BA suit you just have to finish it,IDK :(
 

Hyperballistik

Well-Known Member
I guess i'll add my take on this subject, and I beleive I am still a noob, even though I read the forums when it was the old version and finally joined once I had something worth looking at. But something I have noticed is peoples poost count, I've seen new guys come on here and 3 days later they are up to 75+ post just so they can have Infantryman status and veiw the classifieds, these are usually the ones with the useless threads and asking questions that are already answered in the stickies, I think im a nice guy if they ask me in my thread or pm me I always answer their questions, I just think that maybe there should be some kind of warning that if you start a build thread it better contain pictures of progress if not then the thread will be deleated, I see alot of I plan to build something or a thread that starts out check out my whatever helmet build with a pic of just the top part built and never updated after that those should be deleated after a month and this should be a rule stated when joining, hopefully this would end alot of useless build threads that you learn nothing from, my current build is in the noob forums and I have to admit I hate it when it gets bumped back 6 pages because someone ask a question that the answer could of been found in the stickies or someones new build of something non Halo related, I like to get comments or critisim, it helps me decide how to go about my build, maybe there should be a forum for non related Halo builds, and one for on going Halo builds that are updated on a regular basis, I have learned alot from reading other peoples builds especially the ones that were completed as for the Elite section, I rarely check that forum so I have nothing to say about it except maybe some newer builds with all the new building styles alot of the builds featured on there are older, don't know if my word matters and sorry if I spelled anything wrong im not proof reading this, just hope everybody finds a happy medium, I'll still stick around the 405th regardless
 
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